««« Chapter 7 »»» Yuan Shao Fights Gongsun Zan At The River Pan; Sun Jian Attacks Liu Biao Across The Great River.

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1 At the close of the last chapter Sun Jian was surrounded. However, aided by Cheng Pu, Huang Gai, and Han Dang, he eventually fought his way through, though with the loss of more than half his troops. Sun Jian returned to the South Land, the territories southeast of the Great River. Henceforward Sun Jian and Liu Biao were open enemies.	» Explainer -- The Great River -- The Yangtze or Yangzi river, which flows from west to east to the Pacific at Shanghai.
2 Yuan Shao was in Henei. Being short of supplies, he sent to borrow from the Imperial Protector of Jizhou, Han Fu, whence he obtained the wherewithal to support his army.
3 Then one of Yuan Shao's advisers, Peng Ji, said to him, "You are really the strongest power here about. Why then depend upon another for food? Jizhou Region is rich and wide. Why not seize it?"
4 "I have no good plan," replied Yuan Shao.
5 "You could secretly send a letter to Gongsun Zan, asking him to attack, promising him your support. Imperial Protector Han Fu of Jizhou, being incapable, must ask you to take over his region, and you will get it without lifting a finger."	» heffalump -- He is good.
6 So the letter was sent. When Gongsun Zan saw therein the proposal to make a joint attack and divide the territory, he agreed to give his help. In the meantime Yuan Shao had sent to warn Han Fu of Gongsun Zan's threat. Han Fu sought advice from Counselors Xun Chang and Xin Ping.
7 Xun Chang said, "Governor Gongsun Zan of Beiping is commanding a huge and strong army. If he came to attack us, we could not stand against him, especially if he had the help of Liu Bei and his brothers. At present, Yuan Shao is bolder than most, and he has many able and famous leaders under him. You cannot do better than ask him to assist in administering this region. Yuan Shao will certainly treat you with generosity, and you need have no fear from Gongsun Zan."
8 Han Fu agreed and sent a message to Yuan Shao by the hand of Guan Chun.
9 But Commander Geng Wu remonstrated with his master, saying, "Yuan Shao is a needy man with a hungry army and as dependent on us for existence as an infant in the arms of its mother. Stop the flow of milk and the infant dies. Why should you hand the region over to him? It is nothing less than letting a tiger into the sheepfold!"	» LiaoHua -- Man, the author really loved analogies » Reboot -- Imagery and Analogies -- are common in the Chinese language, even now. » Laguna Cottage -- Scholars talk like that... -- Donald Rumsfeld loves speaking in phrases and expressions. I don't know why the press gave him the title "Most Unintelligible Speaker". After all, the press holds Spelling Bee Contest every year, right?
10 Han Fu replied, "I am one of the clients of the Yuan family, and I know the abilities of Yuan Shao, which is far better than mine! Why are you all so jealous? The ancients counseled yielding to the sage."
11 Geng Wu sighed, "Jizhou is lost!"
12 When the news got abroad, more than thirty officers of Jizhou left their employment and the city. However, Geng Wu and Guan Chun hid in the suburbs to await the arrival of Yuan Shao.
13 They had not long to wait. Some days later, Yuan Shao with his soldiers came, and Geng Wu and Guan Chun tried to assassinate him with knives. This attempt failed. Yuan Shao's generals, Yan Liang and Wen Chou, beheaded Geng Wu and Guan Chun instantly. Thus both of them died, and the object of their hatred entered Jizhou City.	» Explainer -- post -- Each region had a capital, which was often of the same name with the region.
14 Yuan Shao's first act was to confer on Han Fu a high sounding title---General Who Demonstrates Grand and Vigor Courage in Arms---, but the administration was entrusted to four of Yuan Shao's confidants---Tian Feng, Ju Shou, Xu You, and Peng Ji---who speedily deprived the Imperial Protector of all power. Full of chagrin, Han Fu soon abandoned all, even his family, and rode alone to take refuge with the Governor of Chenliu, Zhang Miao.	» Reboot -- 36 Strategems -- To create or take advantage of a situation where one state is in trouble, and enter on the pretext of protecting it. Then usurp the actual power within and rule it. This strategy is outline in the an ancient Chinese text called the "36 Strategems" (this being one of them).
15 Hearing of Yuan Shao's invasion, Gongsun Zan sent his brother, Gongsun Yue, to see the usurper and demand his share of the region.
16 "I want to see your elder brother himself. He and I have things to discuss," said Yuan Shao.
17 Thus Gongsun Yue was sent back. But after traveling some fifteen miles on the homeward road, Gongsun Yue saw a group of soldiers appear.
18 "We are guards of Prime Minister Dong Zhuo!" cried the soldiers.	» MaxBrains -- Oh crap ...
19 Instantly, Gongsun Yue was killed by a flight of arrows. Those of Gongsun Yue's followers who escaped carried the news to their late master's brother.
20 Gongsun Zan was very angry and said, "Yuan Shao prevailed on me to attack, and now he has taken possession! Also he pretends the murderers of my brother were not his people! Shall I not avenge my brother's injury?"	» SrLordofAnderbond -- silly -- yuan shao just gets better and better » GuanPingJr -- Yuan Shao is such a coward -- and he used to be my favorite charecter! Now I see that hes just a stupid jerk » Thwart -- Amen to that
21 Gongsun Zan brought up all his force to the attack. Learning the movement, Yuan Shao sent out his army, and they met at River Pan. They halted on opposite sides of the river, over which was a bridge.
22 Gongsun Zan took his station on the bridge and cried to his enemy, "Renegade, how dared you mislead me?"
23 Yuan Shao rode to the other end of the bridge and, pointing at Gongsun Zan, replied, "Han Fu yielded place to me because he was unequal to the rule! What concern is it of yours?"
24 Gongsun Zan replied, "Formerly you were regarded as loyal and public spirited, and we chose you chief of the confederacy. Now your deeds prove you cruel and base and wolf-hearted in behavior! How can you look the world in the face?"	» MaChaChao -- cliff hanger -- I've been asking that question for a long time now.
25 "Who will capture him?" cried Yuan Shao in a rage.
26 At once Wen Chou rode out with his spear set. Gongsun Zan rode down the bridge to the enemy's side, where the two engaged. Ten bouts showed Gongsun Zan the terrible power of Wen Chou, and so he drew off. The enemy came on. Gongsun Zan took refuge within his formation, but Wen Chou cut his way in and rode this way and that, slaying right and left. The four best of Gongsun Zan's generals offered joint battle, but one fell under the first stroke of the doughty warrior, and the other three fled. Wen Chou followed, clearing through to the rear of the army. Gongsun Zan made for the mountains.	» Kelpie -- Wen Chou -- Koei should make Wen Chou a playable character! He'd kick some serious tail! » Lushu -- not true -- If I had to pick one it would be Cheng Pu. » LordSunQuan -- why cheng pu -- Cheng Pu isnt that good all he does is stand there while you kill him even on extra hard mode (DW3 XL) i would be on of the other Xiahou's. » JiaGai -- Why? Because Cheng Pu is one of the most important figures in the early stages of Wu. -- He is also one of their best overall leaders and warriors. Who cares if his "generic" counterpart in the game sucks, so did Cao Ren and HE got added to the playable list in DW4. » Shokyo -- I think Cao Ren is scarey. -- Productive comment huh? But he is really creepy. » LuBusSword -- Cao Ren... isn't he the little nutter with a sword/shield weapon? » guanping -- its more like a spear and shield » BraveZuMao -- characters -- I think that I would lean more heavily toward the side of Cheng Pu, but both Yan Liang and Wen Chou deserve to be new characters in those games. Koei is really only looking for people viewed as invicible in their time and Koei chooses almost no-one killed in a duel, otherwise characters like like Pang De would be more prominent in the game. » JiaGai -- That's certainly not true. -- The character choice has, largely, gravitated to the more well known characters of the novel. Many of the chosen ones have pivotal roles at certain times during the story. That doesn't mean they choose them all. There are time and memory constraints to deal with, when making a game, after all. If something doesn't seem feasible in a given time frame (set by the developer... video game players are an impatient lot) then they just don't do it.
27 Wen Chou forced his horse to its utmost pace, crying hoarsely, "Down! Dismount and surrender!"
28 Gongsun Zan fled for life. His bow and quiver dropped from his shoulders, his helmet fell off, and his hair streamed straight behind him as he rode in and out between the sloping hills. Then his steed stumbled and he was thrown, rolling over and over to the foot of the slope.	» drunkmastrZhangFei -- ouch -- thats gotta hurt » XiaoQaio -- Injury -- Really hurt...... » BraveZuMao -- Didn't this happen quite a few times in the book? Once with Lu Bu I think.....
29 Wen Chou was now very near and poising his spear for the thrust. Then suddenly came out from the shelter of a grassy mound on the left a general of youthful mien, but sitting his steed bravely and holding a sturdy spear. He rode directly at Wen Chou, and Gongsun Zan crawled up the slope to look on.	» chrisdalby -- Always do idiots do this -- Don't get me wrong, I quite like Gongsun Zan. A bit of a gullible sod but why does he stay there. Wen Chou has just smashed his way through four of his generals and Zan has no idea whether Zilong has the power to match Chou. If he were to run while the duel was on, he could escape. If Chou had won, he was dead meat for sure.
30 The new warrior was of middle height with bushy eyebrows and large eyes, a broad face and a heavy jowl, a youth of commanding presence. The two exchanged some fifty bouts and yet neither had the advantage. Then Gongsun Zan's rescue force came along, and Wen Chou turned and rode away. The warrior did not pursue.	» Lushu -- I think this is my favorite character about to show up. » RoboSSS -- Is it just me -- Or does that description make him sound like a bulldog? With bushy eyebrows... Just how tall was he supposed to be?
31 Gongsun Zan hurried down the hill and asked the young fellow who he was.
32 He bowed low and replied, "My name is Zhao Zilong from Changshan. I first served Yuan Shao; but when I saw that he was disloyal to his prince and careless of the welfare of the people, I left him and I was on my way to offer service to you. This meeting in this place is most unexpected."	» _anonymous -- is zhao zilong, zhao yun? » _chaule -- you are correct. Zhao Zilong is Zhao Yun. » Explainer -- Traditionally, people often call Zhao Yun as Zhao Zilong. -- The translation in this web site has several editions. The first few versions used the name Zhao Yun. But later versions return to tradition due to readers' request. Of the many characters, only Zhao Yun has his style used exclusively here. We ignore most styles to avoid confusion among non-Chinese-speaking readers, since the styles would make no sense if they are in Pinyin. The well-known styles, however, get translated directly, such as "Sleeping Dragon", "Young Phoenix", etc. » _Guan Yu -- I did not know that Zhao Yun once served Yuan Shao. » ComeJeremie -- It is finally time that Zhao Yun (my favorite character) gets into the picture. -- But why did his name change in the game? » Shokyo -- It depends on the version of the book. -- I swear I've read a different one where he's called Yun. What really puzzles me is why Koei changed Sun Ren's name (Sun Shang Xiang). But then Koei are just like that... » Super Dian Wei -- It is his style name. -- What is a style name you ask? It is a nickname that he picked up at one point in life. » JiaGai -- Sun Ren -- Zhao Zilong/Yun aside, Sun Ren really has no name. I've read elsewhere (maybe it was one of these posts?) that "Ren" (in the case of Sun Jian's daughter, anyway) meant "Lady" so Sun Ren literally means Lady Sun. It's been up to others to create a "first name" for her and it tends to vary according to author. KOEI chose to use "Shang Xiang" which they no doubt picked up elsewhere. » Speaker -- As stated, Zilong is Zhao Yun's style. -- Likewise, Xuan De is Liu Bei's style and Meng De is Cao Cao's. Most officers can be called numerous names (Liu Bei= Liu Bei, Liu Xuande, Xuande, ect) » iluvNDfootball -- Style -- What exactly is Mengde, I mean what's it mean? » Shokyo -- One of Cao Cao's names -- He also wrote a book called The Treatise of Mengde. » Elemental -- I don't think anyone knows exactly what "Meng" "De" means... -- If I saw the characters for them, I might be able to translate. » JiaGai -- The Explainer translates Mengde elsewhere in the novel. -- I can't remember just where, exactly, but it's in there. » LuBoyan -- I remember seeing that post. -- I think "de" means virtue cause Liu Bei and Cao Cao both had virtue in their style names. » Shokyo -- post (for Elemental mainly) -- I found a site that does the characters with the names. http://3kingdoms.tripod.com/main.html If you go on the profiles bit then you'll see the characters and style names. Hope that helps. » CaoSquared -- Mengde -- I think Meng means "chief," "head," or "first," and De, like LuBoyan mentioned, means "virtue." So I'm guessing that Mengde probably means "virtuous leadership" or something like that. There's a bunch of stories where Cao Cao plays little word games, so it may be kind of neat to take apart the zi (style) he gave himself. The top radical in the Meng character means "offspring" or "child," and the bottom radical means "blood." So Mengde *could* be a riddle for something like: "virtue of the fruits of blood," or "virtue that begets blood" or something. Could be either a riddle for ends-justifies-the-means, or a riddle expressing regret and tragedy. I'm not sure how these radical puzzles really work. There's something called the Cao Man zhuan which takes a look at his other names: his ming (given name) Cao means "integrity" in the noun form, but often means "manipulate" in the verb form. Ah Man, his baby name, means "Dear Little Deceiver." » Super Dian Wei -- ......OK, you're staying..... -- We have needed a chinese translater for SO long. » darkknight -- style names -- meng de means abundantly virtuous. zilong is little dragon, so sleeping dragon must be ...long. if anyone knows, please say. also zhuge liang's style name is kongming which is confucian wisdom i think. » jimmyli -- sleeping dragon -- Sleeping Dragon = wo4 long2 » farrington -- Mengde -- If you can read Unicode, Cao Cao's style (zi4) is 孟德 (meng4 de2 -- meng4 as in mengzi or Mencius, de2 as in deguo or Germany). Meng4 basically means first in a group, great, or firstborn. It's not exactly right that the bottom portion of "meng" is blood (血 -- xie3), it is actually the very similar looking 皿 (min3) which means a plate or some other flat container. Pedantically speaking, "min3" is not a radical, but a "phonetic" -- it describes how the full character is supposed to sound. This is why min3 sounds a bit like meng4. de2 was correctly glossed as virtue. Just for interest, Cao Cao's given name (ming) is 操 ("cao1"), which means "to manage" or "to control". » Yorak -- Style names -- Does anyone else think that calling characters by their family and style names (like Zhao Zilong), as opposed to their family and given names (like everyone else) is a good idea? It make them easier to differentiate to our barbarian ears. Instead of Cao Cao, he'd be Cao Mengde; Liu Bei becomes Liu Xuande; Guan Yu is Guan Yunchang; Zhuge Liang...well, he can keep his given name, `cause he's special, but he could be Zhuge Kongming; Sima Yi becomes Sima Zhongda; Sun Quan becomes Sun Zhongmou, and so forth. It helps us tell all the Zhangs and Lius and Suns and Xiahous and such apart; plus, if someone has a two-syllable name, you know they're important.
33 Gongsun Zan was very pleased, and the two went together to the camp, where they at once busied themselves with preparations for a new battle.
34 Next day Gongsun Zan prepared for fight by dividing his army into two wings. He had five thousand cavalry in the center, all mounted on white horses. Gongsun Zan had formerly seen service against the northern frontier tribes, the Qiang Peoples, where he always placed his white horses in the van of his army, and thus he had won the sobriquet of General Who Commands White Horses. The tribes held him so much in fear that they always fled as soon as the white horses, their sacred creatures, appeared.	» SkyAnimal -- You would think... -- that facing the northern tribes and what not, he and his soldiers would be battle-hardened and tough. But Wen Chou comes in and cleans house. What is up with that? Guess he just scared the northerners so much his men forgot how to fight. » heffalump -- I guess they were good, but not good enough to go up against Wen Chou. » HeroOfChaos -- Yeah, remember, Wen Chou ain't your average officer either. He was really strong.
35 On Yuan Shao's side Yan Liang and Wen Chou were Leaders of the Van. Each had one thousand of archers and crossbowmen. They were set out half on either side, those on the left to shoot at Gongsun Zan's right and those on the right to shoot at his left. In the center was Qu Yi with eight hundred bowmen and ten thousand of foot and horse. Yuan Shao took command of the reserve force in the rear.
36 In this fight Gongsun Zan employed his new adherent Zhao Zilong for the first time and, as Gongsun Zan did not feel assured of Zhao Zilong's good faith, put him in command of a company at the rear. The Van Leader was Yan Guang, and Gongsun Zan himself commanded the center. He took his place on horseback on the bridge beside an enormous red standard on which was displayed the words Commanding General in gold embroidery.	» DragonAtma -- Umm... -- Umm... Zhao Yun just saved Gongsun Zan's life, yet Gongsun Zan doesn't really trust him. WTF? » guanping -- it could be a ploy by Yuan Shao -- fake saving life and then attack from a vital spot » BraveZuMao -- possible -- that might work, seeing as how Zilong never really did any damage to Wen Chou, but made a show of defending Zan and "winning the day" » chrisdalby -- Is he a good commander though? -- Well for one thing, Gongsun Zan isn't an idiot like Dong Zhuo. He doesn't simply make men commanders because of individual fighting prowess. Zhao Yun may be an excellent fighter mano a mano but he has not proved himself in command of many fighters. That is why Gongsun Zan makes him commander of the reserve forces. » Drackor -- Commanders -- While it's true you don't always want to make fighting men commanders, having a few commanders whose specialty is combat can always help. No one can inspire and motivate a man to fight moreso than someone that man can relate to. Zhao Yun is a people's commander, his only decernable skill is fighting, much like common soldiers. Think of Alexander the Great. While fighting wasn't his only talent, he was at the front of every battle he commanded, fighting alongside his troops. They conquered all of the known world for him too.
37 From sunrise to noon the drums rolled for the attack, but Yuan Shao's army made no move. Qu Yi made his bowmen hide under their shields. They heard the roar of explosions, the whistling of arrows, and the rattle of the drums, as Yan Guang approached from the other side, but Qu Yi and his men lay closer than ever and never stirred. They waited till Yan Guang had got close on them and then, as the sound of a bomb rent the air, the whole eight hundred men let fly their arrows in a cloud. Yan Guang was quite taken aback and would have retired, but Qu Yi rode furiously toward him, whirled up his sword and cut him down.	» capgun -- they mention "cut him down" quite often -- i believe this means to slash, but i'm not sure. if U know, please tell me » Yunsung -- It does. -- More accurately, it means "to bash with a sword so that your enemy falls". Swords weren't exceptionally sharp, like the later Katanas, so you hacked at someone until they fell, then you hack them some more. » capgun -- thank you -- that must have been pretty painful » Shokyo -- I'm guessing it's like European bastard sowrds? -- Bastard swords were designed for swinging, so the point of the blade wasn't particually sharp. Also, they didn't take a lot of skill to use. And as my RE teacher who taught me this (he is also an actor who recreates scenes of the Cromwell wars, and other similar wars. He has a musket, a sergeants pike, and all that other stuff) said, "It is not called a bastard sword because when you try and stab someone and it doesn't go in, then you say 'Tch! Bastard sword...'" » Laguna Cottage -- Two kinds of swords are easily distinguished... -- One with thick blade (dao), and the other thin blade (jian). The thick blade is very easy to use, because we can easily slash or cut an object simply by swinging it. Therefore, most soldiers use the thick blade. The thin blade is not for cutting, but for piercing (the tip is more important). Because of that, thin blade requires martial arts training and is considered more sophisticated. Only generals use thin blade as a symbol of their authority. » Yunsung -- There were also two variants on the jian. -- Wu jian was a scholar's sword. Personal self defense was its main focus. Think of the Crouching Tiger sword. Confucius was a master of this sword technique. Wen jian was the general's sword. That's the one that LC was talking about. » TheYellowDwarf -- The use of "sword" is actually inappropriate here. -- The weapon used by Qu Yi is a "dao", which is basically a huge single-edged blade stuck to the end of a long stick, like a pole-axe, similar to Guan Yu's weapon. So it's really not hard to cut/slash somebody down with it.
38 So Gongsun Zan's army lost that battle. The two wings that should have come to the rescue were kept back by the bowmen under Yan Liang and Wen Chou. Yuan Shao's troops advanced right up to the bridge. Then Qu Yi rode forward, slew the standard bearer, and hacked through the staff of the embroidered banner. Seeing this, Gongsun Zan turned his steed and galloped away.	» capgun -- I am Confused -- is there any difference between a horse and a steed? Or is it just the rank of the person who uses it? Please help. » IloveNDfootball -- Steeds just connotate a better horse
39 Qu Yi followed. But just as he caught up the fugitive, there came prancing forth Zhao Zilong, who rode directly at him with spear ready to strike. After a few bouts Qu Yi was laid in the dust. Then Zhao Zilong attacked the soldiers and turned the tide. Plunging forward on this side, dashing in on that, he went through as if there were no antagonists and, seeing this, Gongsun Zan turned and came again into the fight. The final victory was on his side.	» _Wu Han Tian -- Just have to say this: GO ZHAO ZILONG!!!!!!! -- Whew, okay. Good to get that out of my system.^^* » Kelpie -- Zhao Zilong -- Oh yes, quite impressive! ^_^ Ya gotta love the Little Dragon! » LiaoHua -- Trust -- He's a great General and he saved ur butt twice, i think u can trust him now! » BraveZuMao -- nice -- Laid in the dust.... that... kicks so much ass » mattamatics -- "there came prancing"? -- I wonder...........
40 From the scouts sent to find out how the battle went, Yuan Shao heard the good news of Qu Yi's success in slaying the standard bearer, capturing the flag, and his pursuit. So Yuan Shao took no further care but rode out with Tian Feng and a few guards to look on at the enemy and enjoy his victory.	» guanping -- that is one rubbish communication system » capgun -- probably inaccurate at times too -- that's like saying, "when we saw it 3 days ago we were winning"
41 "Ha ha!" Yuan Shao laughed. "Gongsun Zan is an incapable!"
42 But even as Yuan Shao spoke, he saw in front the redoubtable Zhao Zilong. His guards hastened to prepare their bows, but before they could shoot, Zhao Zilong was in their midst, and men were falling before him wherever he went. The others fled. Gongsun Zan's army then gathered round and hemmed in Yuan Shao.	» _... -- Hey, i was wondering, cant Gongsun Zan do anything for himself?? -- ...or does Zhao Yun have to do it all? » _GuanSuo -- post -- Gongsun Zan is a great man of which i respect he did alot and being defeated by yuan Shao or needed help by Zhao Yun does not mean he couldnt do anything.think about other rulers like Cao Cao he has had to reply on many generals as you shall read about later on.i can recall at least 3 accounts of this and Sun Quan he had to relie on his generals 2 to my knowleage i cant think of any right now about Liu Bei but if i rememeber i shall inform you. p.s sorry if i gave a bit away in this post. » Solace -- Gongsun Zan's real blunder here was in placing Zhao Yun in charge of the reserve. -- Had he allowed Zilong to lead the van, he would not have lost so many troops. It's curious how Yun saved Zan's life the day before, yet Gongsun doubted Zhao's good faith. » darkknight -- yuan shao -- he has tacticians, such as: tian feng, peng ji and shen pei. any of these could have thought of zhao yun pretending to desert » Tiamatty -- Zhao Zilong in the van -- Had Zilong been in the van, it's possible he would've been slaughtered instead of the other guy. As it was, Zilong provided a huge boost right when the army most needed it. Setting aside the trust issues, Gongsun Zan got pretty damned lucky putting Zilong in charge of the reserves. » Drackor -- I disagree... -- Part of the success of the troops in the van comes from the leader leading them. Obviously the General in the Van wasn't up to the task of Van leadership, or he would have scored a success. Zhao Zilong on the other hand, even at this time is a very skilled fighter and could have lead the Van to a victory. While the issue of trust is a good reason for not placing him there, keeping an enemy in charge of your reserve is equally dangerous. If I distrusted someone, I would place that person in the Van simply for that reason alone. If said person betrays me, then the troops that were mine are now right in front of me and easy to deal with. I have the option to engage them, or issue a retreat with nothing to threaten the retreat. If said person betrays me, but controls my reserves, that's totally different. This provides said person with numerous ways to ensure my defeat. They could launch an attack on my rear flank, or simply deny the reserves when I needed them most. They could cut my path of retreat off. That all seems rather obvious to me... Perhaps it's bad judgements like these that allow Shao to beat Zan? :P » chrisdalby -- to jack my professional opinion on the fire -- I think the reason for Zhao Zilong got the command of the rear is that Zan didn't know his value as a field commander, not for lack of trust. Yan Guang, the Van guy, was a proven field commander, but he was outthought by Qu Yi. At that moment, Zhao Zilong showed what he could do and won the battle. If the reverse had been true, Zhao Zilong might have beaten Qu Yi but not as comprehensively as he did and Yan Guang in the rear would have messed up. As such, Zhao Zilong in the rear makes perfect tactical sense.
43 Tian Feng then said to his master, "Sir, take refuge in this empty building here!"
44 But Yuan Shao dashed his helmet to the ground, crying, "The brave person rather faces death in the battle than seeks safety behind a wall!"	» JiaGai -- Yuan Shao's one great moment » Shokyo -- post -- A saying goes along the lines of the less you have, the further you will go. Something to do with determination.
45 This bold speech gave new courage to his soldiers who now fought fiercely and with such success that Zhao Zilong could nowhere force his way in. Yuan Shao was soon reinforced by the arrival of his main body and Yan Liang, and the two armies pressed forward. Zhao Zilong could only just get Gongsun Zan safe out of the press. Then they fought their way back to the bridge. But Yuan Shao's troops still came on and fought their way across the bridge, forcing multitudes of their adversaries into the water, where many were drowned.
46 Yuan Shao was leading in person and his troops still advanced. But not more than two miles, for soon a great shouting was heard behind some hills, whence suddenly burst out a body of troops led by Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei.	» SleepingDragon -- hmph -- Took em long enough. Even if they were delayed you would think the brothers would help their old commander sooner. A side note, dont you think Zhao Yun is a one trick pony? Zhao Yun's motto "APPEAR AS REINFORCEMENTS AND CHARGE!! GRRR" My opinion. » DeadEyedOne -- umm, yeah - but it DOES work... » Solace -- Zhao Yun is a one trick pony? -- where did that ill-conceived thought come from? Gongsan Zan put Zhao Yun in charge of the reinforcements in this battle, it's not as if Zilong had a choice in the matter. Keep reading SleepingDragon, you'll find that if Zhao Yun is indeed a one trick pony, he pulls many multiple one-tricks. » darkknight -- solace, good comeback » DragonAtma -- The novel seems to portray Zhao Yun as being excellent in EVERYTHING. -- If he's as good as the novel suggest, he doesn't NEED one tricks, as he fights as well as Lu Bu. On a side note, a Lu Bu vs Zhao Yun duel would be rather interesting... » Yunsung -- In history, it wasn't Zhang Fei who saved Gongsun Zan at Tiger Trap, it was Zhao Yun. -- He fought Lu Bu for 12 bouts, until Bu wounded him in the shoulder. It was only after Zilong retreated that Yide took to the field. » WUuuu -- That is among the most interesting Facts left out of the novel I have heard.
47 At Pingyuan they had heard of the struggle between their protector and his enemy, Yuan Shao, and had at once set out to help. Now the three riders, each with his peculiar weapon, flew straight at Yuan Shao, who was so frightened that his soul seemed to leave his body and fly beyond the confines of heaven.	» Creslin -- I think someone needs a new pair of pants...
48 His sword fell from his hand and he fled for his life. He was chased across the bridge when Gongsun Zan called in his army, and they returned to camp.	» Bastardman -- Maybe "This brave person" is searching for that wall to hide behind right about now. » MaChaChao -- So much for that courageous speech. » WeiYanYan -- Remember -- Take Yuan Shao's place: You have the one who slew Hua Xiong and those who pushed Lu Bu. Don't you think you would also flee for your life? » darkknight -- i'd be scared -- if the 6"9 bugger, the bugger with the 10 foot spear and big ears long arms, were chasing me. » Lushu -- Is this strange? -- Have any of you notice that The Allied Forces are now fighting with each other? They should focus on the main goal. DEFEATING DONG ZHUO!!!!! » LordSunQuan -- It's the doing of Yuan Shu. » Solace -- Very true Lushu -- the allies should have kept their attentions on Dong Zhuo. But oaths and the plight of the people is easily forgotten when greed and ambition enters the frame. » LiaoHua -- Dong Zhuo -- If i were Dong Zhuo i would strike now while u're enemies are killing each other. » toocold -- when it comes down to it -- aliances break up rather easily. Now just as much as then. For instance the US and Iraq used to be buddies, in a few years here we are at odds. The thing is, each nation, and in terms of the novel, ruler, have their own ambitions. They have to know that going in, and so it stands to reason that they would begin to squabble. They all know that even after they beat Dong Zhuo, the next guy in the power chain (yuan shao)that would make me nervous as a ruler knowing that as soon as one guy goes down theres going to be another, so u start making your own moves and then the whole alliance falls apart. At least thats what im thinking is going on. » atomicwillie -- lmfao -- omg im sorry, but i knew yuan shao was a pussy, but not like this. i almost fell out of my chair laughing at this part right here and the paragraph above. lol his soul left his body and ran to the heavens. » WuTugu -- chicken i say -- whats the point of being a GRAND COMMANDER if ya gonna chiken out on all the action, what a waste of time, the reason the whole alliance didnt fuck up is because of Sun Jian killing Hua Xiong and the three brothers beating Lu Bu in the duel.
49 After the usual greetings Gongsun Zan said, "If you had not come to our help, we should have been in very bad case."
50 Liu Bei and Zhao Zilong were made acquainted with each other, and a warm affection sprang up from the very first so that they were always together.	» LiaoHua -- Liu Bei and Zhao Zilong -- I wonder if Liu Bei had met Zhao Zilong when he met Guan Yu and Zhang Fei would he have become liu bei's sworn brother as well? » toocold -- i wouldnt doubt it -- later guan yu mentions that Zhao Zilong is has been around so long that he's like a brother and actually seems to accept him as an equal. So i actually think he could have been included. he got along fine with the brothers and was just as loyal to liu bei as the others as well. Of course, three is a very balanced numbers, and groups of three friends often get along better than groups of 4. Also a chair with 3 legs will never be wobbly. It doesnt directly translate, but 3 can be viewed symbolically as a number of stability. » roflcopter -- re: i wouldn't doubt it -- true, but a chair with four legs is whole, whereas one with three is not. » Tiamatty -- Chairs -- I wouldn't sit on a chair with 3 legs. It would always wobble. What with missing a leg and all. And I'm not sure they would've invited him in. He was too much of a follower. Guan Yu and Zhang Fei treated Liu Bei as a friend and brother, rather than their lord. Zilong treated him as a superior. » Drackor -- 3 legged chair.... -- If the legs were placed on the chair in a triangle formation, 1 at the front-middle of the seat and 2 at the back near each ends. This 3 legged chair would never wobble.
51 Yuan Shao had lost that battle, and Gongsun Zan would not risk another. They strengthened their defenses, and the armies lay inactive for over a month. In the meantime news of the fighting had reached Capital Changan, and Dong Zhuo was told.
52 His adviser, Li Ru, went to see his master and said, "The two active leaders of today are Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan, who are at grips at River Pan. Pretend you have an imperial command to make peace between them, and both will support you out of gratitude for your intervention."	» Yorak -- bad advice? -- Li Ru is the man when it comes to devious schemes, but I've got to question his judgement here. Both Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan were out to kill him originally; once they stop fighting each other, they might well turn their attentions back to Dong Zhuo, "peaceful intervention" or no. I'd have thought Li Ru would advise Dong Zhuo to use spies and rumors to make the two hate each other even more, and end up destroying each other. Then Dong Zhuo can finish off the survivor and pick up the pieces. » iamnick -- i agree with you yorak » Melchiot -- Li Ru isn't giving bad advice here. -- If the Yuan and Gongsun continued to fight, then there is a good chance that they will be reminded of the threat by Dong Zhuo (by someone with half a brain), and put their differences aside for the time being. If they both receive an imperial command, then they will stop fighting and like Dong Zhuo some more for stopping their 'foolish behaviour'. And it worked somewhat.
53 "Good!" said Dong Zhuo.
54 So he sent Imperial Guardian Ma Midi and Court Administrator Zhao Qi on the mission. When these men were arriving at the North of Yellow River, Yuan Shao sent out to welcome them thirty miles from his headquarters and received the imperial command with the greatest respect. Then the two officers went to Gongsun Zan and made known their errand. Gongsun Zan sent letters to his adversary proposing friendship. The two emissaries returned to report their task accomplished. Gongsun Zan drew off his army. He also sent up a memorial eulogizing Liu Bei, who was raised to the rank of Governor of Pingyuan.	» Vanguard -- post -- This is somewhat disturbing and incomprehensible: Gongsun Zan and Yuan Shao, who were among the opposition forces to fight against Dong Zhuo who controls the Emperor, are likely accepting the imperial commands to cease battles and even "with greatest respects"?! There must be some part in the story missing here. » dgr81 -- post -- to reject the imperial decree was treason, and enemies or opportunists could use this as a legitimate reason to rally allies in the guise of destroying a traitor. plus both yuan shao and gongsun zan had reached a situation in which neither were willing to continue the fight but could find no reason to so without losing face. » MasterLiang -- They could accept the order now, go home, and build up for later. » jolteony -- No. They were in war which is bad for the country all around them... -- Peace was needed to rebuild the economy and the army. And they could always use Dong Zhuo as an ally if the adversary rejected the peace treaty. » chrisdalby -- Li Ru is no idiot -- Li Ru would have ensured that the seal would be that of Emperor Xian which signified that Yuan and Gongsun would have to obey.
55 The farewell between Liu Bei and Zhao Zilong was affecting. They held each other's hands a long time, their eyes streaming with tears, and could not tear themselves apart.	» _ME -- Liu bei and Zhao Zilong are lovers... -- now I know why it is called Romance of the Three Kingdoms! » _... -- post -- lol » _zhou yu -- LOL -- lol haahha i guess those two adopted liu chan » drunkmastrZhangFei -- Hmm -- Wonder if the two younger brothers got jealouse? » MaChaChao -- response -- I guess we'll never know the whole story. Makes you wonder though..... » guanping -- at least that one makes sense
56 Zhao Zilong said with a sob, "I used to think Gongsun Zan a true hero, but I see now that he is no different from Yuan Shao. They are both alike."	» Notorious -- It looks as though they are too close for 2 men and also behaving too girly for great Generals » Michael M. Pettit -- Yeah, well ... this is second century China. -- Stuff like this was happening well into the Middle Ages, I believe. To my knowledge, Zhao Yun, in addition to being one of the finest generals of his time or any, is also one of the most loyal, and it shows. Of course, granted, we would be looked on as a "fruit" if he were in the Army today and doing that with a two-star general. I really don't know. » Kytross -- post -- China was not influenced by the Stoic philosophy of Greece, as was the western world. Men embraced thier emotions then, as we should today. There is no reason to assume there is something untoward in the relationship between Liu Bei and Zhao Yun. They are both virtuous, holding the same ideals and both have given their lives to seeing those ideals change the world. » _Cao Cao -- post -- It is interesting that Zhao Yun married very late in life, and once refused the advance of a beautiful lady. » LiaoHua -- Perhaps Zhao Yun must be shy with women » _Mike Rossetti -- post -- Petit makes a good point. The Middle Age novel Sir Gawain & the Green Night is an example of a chivalrous knight refusing an agressive lady. Nor can we forget [The Iliad] how much Achilles wept and then went ballistic over the death of his best friend. » dgr81 -- true men are not afraid to show their emotions lol. » Brother Dun -- What are you talking about, saying that Greece did not act like this? -- Yes they did, as did Rome after being influnced. I could barely make my way through Julius Ceasar for English this year because of all this mushy show of emotions between men. At least in Ancient China they didn't call each other "lovers". *Shudders* » _zhou yu -- ok -- first of all cao cao makes the best point, secondly its funny how generals slaughter each other alike and yet they show emotions for those alike to the ones they slaughter, lastly ceaser was roman not greek, unless ur inplying how rome pretty much adapted all theatre ideas from greece » ZhangDun -- Loyal? -- He's changed loyalties TWICE now! » JiaGai -- Zhao Zilong -- Zhao Zilong strikes me as a man seeking a virtuous man to serve and each time he enters service, he is sorely disappointed. » loyalsoldier -- The reference to the Illiad is counter to its argument. -- Homosexuality was encouraged in the military among the ancient Greeks, reasoning that men would fight more valiantly for their lovers than the petty whims of their leaders. Regardless, looking at the event using any morals aside from those of the age and culture in which they occur ruins the essence of the story. » iamnick -- wow -- loyalsoldier, how do you know that? i don't doubt you, in fact i'm surprised that i've never heard that before, because it does make perfect sense and it's very interesting tactically. » Tiamatty -- Greek gayness -- Patroclus was actually Achilles' lover, not just his friend. The ancient Greeks, particularly the Athenians, actually believed the love between 2 men was the best love, one of the viewpoints expressed in Plato's 'The Symposium'. In fact, there was an elite fighting squad (whose name escapes me at the moment) composed entirely of lovers. They were the best of the best, unbeatable on the battlefield. When they finally were defeated by a MUCH larger force, they died to a man - no prisoners. The Romans followed much the same standards. It wasn't just a matter of love, it was also about lust. They men were horny, and they couldn't very well bring their wives along with them, so they turned to homosexuality as a way of getting off. As for whether or not Liu Bei and Zhao Yun were lovers - keep in mind, this novel was written about 1300 years after the fact. It's possible they weren't quite this fond of each other. Still, it makes for an interesting idea. » chrisdalby -- Zhao Yun is the exact opposite of Lu Bu -- Lu Bu changes allegiance in quest for personal gain and renown while Zhao Yun does it to search for a wise man to serve such as Liu Bei. » stallion -- im new -- i agree with chrisdalby
57 "But you are now in his service. We shall surely meet again," said Liu Bei.	» Foxheart -- Lovers -- Alright. Some people have said that Liu Bei and Zhao Yun weren't lovers - that they were only showing loyalty and true friendship. I never saw Liu Bei hold hands and cry whenever Zhang Fei and Guan Yu had to leave somewhere. At one point of the story, Guan Yu is sent to Jingzhou, and you don't hear from him for another 10 years. I didn't read about Liu Bei holding hands and crying with him. Plus, if Zhao Yun and Liu Bei were such good friends, then how come Zhao Yun didn't become sworn brothers with him? It actually seems like Zhao Yun got along better with Liu Bei than Liu's own sworn brothers did. Also, if you recall, when Liu Bei aids Tao Qian, he sends a message to Gongsun Zan, asking him to send down Zhao Yun. Tao Qian was at one end of the country, and Gongsun Zan was at the other end. Zhao Yun travelled across China to meet Liu Bei. Not to mention that at this point of the story, Zhao Yun would stay with Gongsun Zan for another 11 years. Zhao Yun wanted to leave Gongsun, but Liu Bei told him to stay because that way, they'd be able to see each other again. Zhao Yun stayed with Gongsun Zan - a master he personally disliked - for 11 years just so he could meet up with Liu Bei again. » Shokyo -- Maybe he was just too lazy to go back to find another peach garden? » Laguna Cottage -- Even when some may think this is wishful thinking... -- I believe Liu Bei and Zhao Zilong would make a beautiful couple. They are so compatible in many aspects, that between them we can only see true love. It's more than friendship, loyalty, and duty alone. » Pluvius -- Tao Qian wasn't that far away -- Gongsun Zan ruled the northeasternmost lands of China, while Tao Qian ruled the middle coasts. According to the map, there's only about 400 miles between them, while China is at least 1000 miles. And considering that a lot of armies in this book marched for quite some distance to reach their destinations (for instance, the coalition against Dong Zhuo gathered people from all over the eastern half of China), it's hardly impossible for a good general to be requested over this distance. » LiaoHua -- Liu Bei and Zhao Yun, a few notes... -- First off despite wat some of u think Liu Bei and Zhao Yun are not lovers they each marry WOMEN. Secondly, he probably couldn't make another oath to brotherhood because how could he explain it to his brothers... "oh u guys are great in all but zhao yun and i get along better, so see ya..." » Reboot -- Alternative explanation -- Liu Bei wanted to recruit Zhao Yun but didn't want to look like he's subverting his old friend Gongsun's generals. So he befriended Zhao Yun and showed his appreciation of him. If Zhao Yun wanted to join him, he could do it when Liu Bei's far away enough that nobody will place an accusing finger on him. » ZhaoYunalmighty -- I'm sure Liu Bei wept with his brothers plenty of times. -- Maybe he just doesnt say it. This probably emphasizes that Zhao Yun and Liu Bei will meet again. It adds a little foreshadowing in my opinion. » Super Dian Wei -- Here is my humble opinion... -- This book is from the mind of Luo Guanzhong. It is BASED on history, but the guy can write whatever he so desires. Kinda like Titanic by James Cameron. The major events are true (for the most part), but when it comes to little things (like Jack and Rose), it's up to the author. I doubt anybody really knew what, if anything was going down between Zhao Yun and Liu Bei. It's probably just the author making things up.
58 Both men wept freely as they separated.
59 Now Yuan Shu in Nanyang, hearing that his brother had come into Jizhou, sent to beg a thousand horses. The request was refused and enmity sprang up between the brothers. Yuan Shu also sent to Jingzhou to borrow grain, which Imperial Protector Liu Biao would not send. In his resentment, Yuan Shu wrote to Sun Jian, Governor of Changsha, trying to get him to attack Liu Biao. The letter ran like this:
60 "When Liu Biao stopped you on your way home, it was at the instigation of my brother. Now the same two have planned to fall upon your territories in the South Land, wherefore you should at once strike at Liu Biao. I will capture my brother for you and both resentments will be appeased. You will get Jingzhou, and I shall have Jizhou."	» Lushu -- Two faced -- I'm sure he wants Sun Jian. Turn him down, Sun Jian!!!! » LiaoHua -- Spiteful little buggar isn't he » guanping -- Over confident too if he actually thought he could beat his brother Yuan Shao
61 "I cannot bear Liu Biao," said Sun Jian as he finished reading this letter. "He certainly did bar my way home, and I may wait many years for my revenge if I let slip this chance!"
62 He called a council.
63 "You may not trust Yuan Shu. He is very deceitful," said Cheng Pu.	» Foxheart -- Right, Cheng Pu -- Sun Jian should know better than to trust someone who wants to kill his own brother. » JiaGai -- Misplaced rage -- You'd think Sun Jian would rather take his wrath out on Yuan Shu or Yuan Shao, instead (Yuan Shu for not provinding proper support and Yuan Shao for ordering the attack). Then again, Sun Jian was always led by his emotions and I somehow doubt he had the power to face either, anyway. » Shokyo -- Sounds like me... -- This is what happens when you employ leaders still going through puberty. » guanping -- Sun Jian's age -- um Shokyo he was in his 30's at the time I belive. He could hit Liu Biao easier than the Yuans. » WUuuu -- Sun Jian was 37 » soonGon -- here is the reason -- sun jian attacked liu biao because he is closest. it would almost be impossible for himto get to yuan shao without going through liu biao first. could he handle them? of course, he's Fucking SUN JIAN! he himself without his generals help could hold his own with the likes of wen chou or yan liang. so to summarize reason for attacking liu biao first is a geographical thing and sun jian could hold his own against anybody in his time... » ZhaoYunalmighty -- I think your exagerating his powers buddy. -- I would think the Yuans' army was too much for Sun Jian's. » Super Dian Wei -- Keep in mind, neither Yuan Shao or Sun Jian are very powerful at this point. -- They are still amassing land and troops, and neither have a very strong foothold. We don't know how big or small they are at this point, and because we don't know that, we cannot compare the two. Even if we could, we would have to consider terrain and distance and whatnot. Sun Jian and Yuan Shao are pretty far away to make it rational that either would attack each other, and thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE to acurately compare the two. » JiaGai -- Yuan Shao was quite powerful at this point. -- As the heir to a very prestigious family, he had a lot of influence, land and prestige. There was a good reason he was chosen by Cao Cao to lead the coalition against Dong Zhuo, after all. However, he is located far north and would have been difficult to invade for Sun Jian. Yuan Shu, on the other hand, is located relatively close to Liu Biao, and Sun Jian could just as easily invaded him if he was going to attack Liu Biao. » ZhaoZilongfan -- Sun Jian's strength -- Well, from my point... after the Yellow Turban Rebellion, there were other less major rebellions, one in the northwest led by Han Sui and... some yellow turban guy (for a second time), one in the north (Ji, Bei Ping region) led by some dude, and one in Changsha. He Jin ordered Dong Zhuo to take down Han Sui, Gongsun Zan to the northern rebellion, and Sun Jian the southern rebellion. So Sun Jian destroyed his rebellion quickly, leaving him time to amass power in the south. When the Anti-Dong Zhuo Coalition broke out, he lead his force in the front. He was the sole force that caused the most damage to Dong Zhuo due to Jian's good sized, well trained force. As you know, he was betrayed by Yuan Shu, and conspired against by Yuan Shao and Liu Biao, which diminished his forces. Yuan Shao (if I am right where I think I am at in the book) has enough men, but lacks the supplies. » GuanPingJr -- I'd kill my own brother if it was Yuan Shao -- Shao is a liar and a traitor. He's better off dead! By the way, Wen Chou and Yan Liang are great fighters, easily the best in the north
64 "I want revenge on my own part. What care I for his help?" said Sun Jian.
65 He dispatched Huang Gai to prepare a river fleet, arm and provision them. Big warships were to take horses on board. The force soon set out.	» EternalWarrior -- River Fleet -- As opposed to what...? » Tiamatty -- As opposed to no fleet at all. -- It's just saying that Huang Gai prepared a bunch of boats for sailing down to whoop Liu Biao's ass. The book is full of little details, meant to make it a more interesting read.
66 News of these preparations came to Liu Biao, and he hastily summoned his advisers and commanders.
67 Kuai Liang told him to be free from anxiety, and said, "Put General Huang Zu at the head of the Jiangxia army to make the first attack and you, Sir, support him with the forces from Xiangyang. Let Sun Jian come riding the rivers and straddling the lakes: What strength will he have left after arriving here?"
68 So Liu Biao bade Huang Zu prepare to march, and a great army was assembled.
69 Here it may be said that Sun Jian had four sons, all the issue of his wife who was of the Wu family. Their names in order were Sun Ce, Sun Quan, Sun Yi, and Sun Kuang. Sun Jian had a second wife who was the sister of his first wife. And the second wife bore him a son and a daughter, the former called Sun Lang, the latter Sun Ren. Sun Jian had also adopted a son from a Yu family and named him Sun Hu. And he had a younger brother named Sun Jing.	» Na Wu Tang -- "the latter Sun Ren." -- In the Koei games like Dynasty Warriors 3, the name Sun Ren is changed to Sun Shang Xiang (Sonshyoukou in japenese version). » _Stonewolf -- DW3 -- If you really want to get into specifics, most of the women in Koei's Dynasty Warriors games did not participate in battles. At least it's not as twisted as Kessen II. » _Shadow -- yea Kessen II was screwed up... -- I mean c'mon... Liu Bei & Diao Chan? ...i don't really see that... plus Liu Bei looks like a moron in the game... it has a good story tho » _Sam B. -- In the story, I don't think Liu Bei and Diao Chan ever met. -- Kessen 2 was a COMPLETE alternative universe. Although the part of Cao Cao and Liu Bei in friendship may seem wrong, but they were allies at Hu Lao gate(or whatever it is called). » Keeruu-Hiroshi -- DW3 -- I dont think Liu Bei ever met Diao Chan either. » _anonymous -- I thought Sun Shang Xiang was Sun Quan's daughter not Sun Jian's. » dgr81 -- sun ren and sun shangxiang is probably the same person -- that is, sun jian's daughter and sun ce's sister. » _Deruki -- post -- I'm assuming that Sun Lang is Sun Li from Kessen II , what you have to realize is that the games don't necessarily have to be the exact story from the book. Keep in mind the book isn't even the exact events of real life. Everything is based on something. » _TheNovak -- Sun Ren -- Just going by DW4, Sun Shang Xiang/Ren is Sun Jian's daughter and Quan & Ce's sister, as Shang Xiang refers to Sun Jian as "father" and the other two Suns as "brother." Since that matches the geneology laid down in this paragraph, I'm guessing it's right... » Speaker -- Sun Ren -- Sun Ren was indeed Sun Jian's daughter. No, Liu Bei and Diao Chan never meet during the novel. I will not give you the historical information because it would "burst everyone's bubble," so to speak. » CaoCaoForever -- Sun Shang Xiang RULZ!!!! -- It's about TIME SSX got mentioned in this story, she was one of the first characters i built up in DW3. » CapTamZai -- Yup... common indeed.... Yi fu liang ci [one husband, two wives] -- very common in rich families, perhaps even more... atlhough it is rare that the second [and so forth] wife is related to the first one... » LiaoHua -- Kessen II -- did Mei Sanniang exist at all in the book and i thought Sun Li was just another version of Sun Shang Xiang » JiaGai -- Uh, no. -- Seriously, I would disregard the entirety of Kessen II in regards to the novel. Call Kessen II an "alternate" telling of the story meant to amuse the people already well versed in the original. Even the characters in Kessen II that ARE in the novel aren't exactly portrayed the way they are here. » LiaoHua -- Guan Yu -- I guess that's true i mean it would be real embarrasing if the great guan yu was really afraid of frogs » Thwart -- We never know. He could have been afraid of frogs. Some people are weird like that » superbus -- Kessen II -- Kessen II was a COMPLETE work of fiction; only the characters names were from the book. Most of the characters are complete fiction, and the ones that are there have no resemblance. It was strictly a good guy vs. bad guy plot. Personally, I couldn't stomach Kessen II's story. » guanping -- Still a great game -- Pity Kessen 3 is a return to Japan
70 As Sun Jian was leaving on this expedition, his brother Sun Jing with all his six sons stood in front of his steed and dissuaded him, saying, "Dong Zhuo is the real ruler of the state, for the Emperor is a weakling. The whole country is in rebellion, everyone is scrambling for territory. Our area is comparatively peaceful, and it is wrong to begin a war merely for the sake of a little resentment. I pray you, brother, think before you start."	» yuanthedestroyer -- why don't we hear more about this guy (Jing), is he that useless? » Tiamatty -- Sun Jing was far from useless, but he was never a top general. -- He was a good advisor to Jian's sons, and an able administrator. But, of course, this is a book of struggle, of war, not of civil administration. So Sun Jing shines behind the scenes. And from a military standpoint, he was never as great as Huang Gai or Cheng Pu, never the one leading the charges. So, while he was a major figure in Wu, he just doesn't get much attention from the book. Unfortunate, but wha'e'er.
71 Sun Jian replied, "Brother, say no more. I desire to make my strength felt throughout the empire, and shall I not avenge my injuries?"
72 "Then Father, if you must go, let me accompany you," said the eldest son Sun Ce.
73 This request was granted, and father and son embarked to go to ravage the city of Fankou.
74 Now Huang Zu had placed archers and crossbowmen along the river bank. When the ships approached, a flight of arrows met them. Sun Jian ordered his troops to remain under cover in the ships, which then sailed to and fro, drawing the fire for three days. Several times the ships pretended to land, and this drew showers of arrows from the bank. At last the arrows of the defenders were all shot away and Sun Jian, who collected them, found he had many myriads. Then with a fair wind Sun Jian's troops shot them back to the enemy. Those on the bank were thrown into great disorder and retired. The army then landed. Two divisions led by Cheng Pu and Huang Gai set out for Huang Zu's camp along different roads, and between them marched Han Dang. Under this triple attack Huang Zu was worsted. He left Fankou and hastened to Dengcheng.
75 Leaving the ships under the command of Huang Gai, Sun Jian led the pursuing force. Huang Zu came out of his city and drew up for battle in the open country. When Sun Jian had disposed his army, he rode out to the standard. Sun Ce, clad in armor, placed himself beside his father.
76 Huang Zu rode out with two generals---Zhang Hui from Jiangxia and Chen Sheng from Xiangyang.
77 Flourishing his whip, Huang Zu abused his enemy, "You swarm of rebels from the south! Why do you invade the land of a scion of the ruling house?"
78 Zhang Hui challenged to combat, and Han Dang went out to accept. The two champions fought thirty bouts, and then Chen Sheng, seeing his fellow general becoming exhausted, rode to his aid. Sun Jian saw Chen Sheng coming, laid aside his spear, reached for his bow, and shot an arrow wounding Chen Sheng in the face. He fell from his horse. Panic seized upon Zhang Hui at the fall of his comrade, and he could no longer defend himself. Then Han Dang with a slash of his sword clove Zhang Hui's skull in twain.	» _Sam B. -- Bout? -- I'm finally going to ask. What is a bout in that time? » Manji -- What is a Bout? Easy -- In those times, a "Bout" would normally suffice as a "Duel" or a Fight. Bout I believe is just a more exquisite way to say "Fight". It also could be a joust, it really depends on the place of the phrase and time. It may be Duel in Japan, or Combat in France. But it would be Bout at that time in China. Or they could just be playing a copy of Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout. It's really up to the writer and your terms for it. » Keeruu-Hiroshi -- What is a bout? -- It's probably something like passes, or clashing of weapons. » Kytross -- Bout is a period of time spent in a particular way, most usually used in reference to competition. -- The best modern example would be in boxing, where they still occasionally call them a boxing bout. » _Exuberence -- Bouts -- When, in this story, I see Generals having "bouts" I imagine them on their horses circling one another and then suddenly both leaping into combat, exchanging blows. When they grow tired they disengage and go back to circling, taking a short rest and catching their breath before going at it again. Thus a description of "30 bouts" would make for a very long fight indeed, which I think is the intended message. » _Peter -- What is bout Uploaded 1/9/2003 -- Bout = round. It is used to count how many times two opponents change their hands (or weapons). Each cout tptically consists of a offending action from one side and a denfending action from the other side. It is not necessary for two sides to touch each ohter, for instance, one side attacks, the opponent dodges away, that is a count, because the offending side has to start again. By the way, it is nothing regarding length of time. The usage of bout has some variants in modern time, as in boxing for certain time perion in which the boxers can change hands for many times. Or as in political affairs. For instance in president election, three TV arguments are three bouts. However, in the book, it was used for its original meaning only, not for its variants. » CapTamZai -- actually... -- i would be guessing that in the original text it had said "gok", which is something like rounds... and according to chinese customs a "gok" is somewhat where weapons are clashing with little or no pauses in between... when there is a longer pause, then that would end the round, and another clash after that would be called another "gok". » jimmyli -- bouts -- In the Chinese TV series version of Three Kingdoms, the 2 opposing generals would ride toward each other (like a joust) and attack. They would either stop in the center and attack while still or continue riding past each other and repeat. » MrLuBu -- Why do the officers always fight on horses? Wouldn't it be easier to fight on their feet? » Super Dian Wei -- Here is why. -- When you are on a horse, the actual body of the animal offers protection from a myriad of attacks, such as arrows, sword slashes, and even spear thrusts. Besides this, if you and your army are getting pounded on, the horse can run away alot faster than you can. While attacks would be more easily maneuvered if you were not riding one, the best offense is a good defense. » WUuuu -- Also -- It is signifigantly easier to attack from a higher ground, a horse is like an artificial higher grand. Its hard to block attacks from above. The extra force of a spear at the end of a charge makes it almost impossible to block. » Laguna Cottage -- It is like an F16... -- If we are not trained to fight on horseback, we would think a horse is difficult. But once we learned how to harness a war horse, it would offer many benefits mentioned above. » Reboot -- Why Fight on Horseback -- ... so you can run away if you lose! Besides, if you're going to follow-up an attack immediately after winning the bout you'll be better equiped on a horse to do so. » LueBeithegreat -- Example of a bout. -- In DW3, on Hu Lao Gate, there is a cutscene of Lu Bu fighting the three brothers. That is a bout.
79 Both having fallen, Cheng Pu galloped up to make prisoner of Huang Zu, who threw off his helmet, slipped from his steed, and mingled for safety among his troops. Sun Jian led on the attack and drove the enemy to the Han River where he ordered Huang Gai to move the fleet upriver and moor there.	» drunkmastrZhangFei -- Just a thought -- I bet the troops got really bored just standing around watching their officers do all the fighting until times like these. » JiaGai -- Troop boredom -- Considering how quickly troops often abandoned the battlefield when one of their leaders fell, I'd say they were more terrified than anything else, waiting anxiously to see who would win or lose. » Ragnarok -- Not at all. -- Watching a man of rank, who you are risking your life for, is now risking his life for you and your comrades. Great fun all round.
80 Huang Zu led his defeated troops back and told Liu Biao, saying, "Sun Jian was too strong for my army!"
81 Kuai Liang was called in to advise, and he said, "Our newly defeated soldiers have no heart for fighting now. Therefore we must fortify our position, while we seek help from Yuan Shao. Then we can extricate ourselves."
82 "A stupid move!" said Cai Mao. "The enemy is at the city gates: Shall we fold our hands and wait to be slain? Give me troops and I will go out and fight to the finish!"	» guanping -- Is this the worst advice possible » Shokyo -- From one of the chief arse-hats of the book.
83 So Cai Mao was placed in command of ten thousand troops and went out to the Xian Hills where he drew up his battle line. Sun Jian led the invaders, now flushed with success.
84 When Cai Mao approached, Sun Jian looked at him and said, "He is brother-in-law to Liu Biao. Who will capture him?"
85 Cheng Pu set his iron-spined lance and rode out. After a few bouts Cai Mao turned and fled. Sun Jian's army rode in and slaughtered till corpses filled the countryside, and Cai Mao rushed back and took refuge in Xiangyang.
86 Kuai Liang said, "Cai Mao ought to be put to death by military law! This defeat was due to his obstinacy."
87 But Liu Biao was unwilling to punish the brother of his newly wedded wife.
88 Sun Jian surrounded Xiangyang and assailed the walls daily. One day a fierce gale sprang up, and the pole bearing his standard was broken.	» SleepingDragon -- Well... -- Just more foreshadowing...good crud, man...We get the deal!!
89 "Very inauspicious!" said Han Dang. "We ought to go back."
90 Sun Jian said, "I have won every battle and the city is on the point of falling. Shall I return because the wind felled a flagstaff?"	» guanping -- stop ignoring the signs -- A God comes down from heaven and says, "Turn back Sun Jian or you will die." Sun Jian replies, "Never! I will fight despite all the signs and the warning you gave me." The guy is being stubborn about annoying/ignoring heaven... » JiaGai -- And what would you do? -- Who wants to believe in superstitious nonsense that there are signs leading to your impending doom? How many people today would accept that they are fated to fail and die miserably if they don't stop pursuing their goals? » MrLuBu -- hmmmmm -- He seems to have forgotten that he said "may I die a violent death!" » Tiamatty -- You can't just take everything as an omen. -- Let's face it, not everything is going to have some deeper meaning to it, and we can't let our lives be controlled by what may or may not be omens. As Freud said, "Sometime, a cigar is just a cigar." » GuanPingJr -- Not to mention -- if Sun Jian pulled back now, he might never get this good of a chance to invade Liu Biao. Retreating over a flag breaking would surely sap the men's morale, and Liu Biao would have more time to prepare his men for Jian's next attack, or he could even counter attack. Retreating now would be an all around bad move for him. Besides, this is showing bravery, and the soldiers like to see that in their leader. » DongDal -- Or stupidity -- Which they don't.
91 He flouted the advice and attacked the walls still more vigorously.
92 Within the city the defenders had seen an omen.
93 Kuai Liang told Liu Biao, "Last night I saw that a great star fall into the sky corresponding to Sun Jian's territory. I calculated that it inferred the fall of Sun Jian."	» LiaoHua -- Astrology -- Wow, did they really see stars fall before a leader fell or was this just added in to make the story better? » ThreeKingdomsSupreme -- I believe it is added in the story to make it better -- I mean, come on, stars and comets in the universe is common. They are affected by those complicated gravitational thingies, not because a leader on a little planet died. Though I must say, they did a good job on exaggerating the star part.
94 Then Kuai Liang advised Liu Biao to seek help from Yuan Shao as quickly as possible.
95 So Liu Biao wrote. Then he asked who would undertake to fight his way through the blockade with the letter. One Lu Gong, a warrior of great strength, offered himself for this service.
96 Kuai Liang said, "If you undertake this service, listen to my advice. You will have five hundred soldiers: Choose good bowmen. Dash through the enemy's formation and make for Xian Hills. You will be pursued; but send a hundred soldiers up the hill to prepare large stones, and place a hundred archers in ambush in the woods. These are not to flee from the pursuers but to beguile them along devious ways round to the place where the boulders have been prepared. There stones will be rolled down and arrows shot. If you succeed, fire off a series of bombs as a signal, and the armies in the city will come out to help. If you are not pursued, get away as fast as possible. Tonight will be suitable as there is very little moon. Start at dusk."	» blackdagger -- Does anyone know what they meant by bombs? -- I'm guessing they meant a fire work type thing, full with gunpowder... but i'm not 100% » MasterLiang -- Basically, something loaded with black powder that went Boom.
97 Lu Gong having received these directions, prepared his force to carry them out. As soon as day began to close in, he went quietly out at the east gate.
98 Sun Jian was in his tent when he heard shouting, and a soldier came to report: "There was a group of horsemen going out from the city!"
99 Sun Jian at once mounted and rode out with thirty horsemen to discover the cause. Lu Gong's troops had already hidden themselves in the thick woods. Sun Jian rode ahead of his escort, and soon he found himself alone and close to the enemy. He called out to them to halt. Lu Gong at once turned back and came as if to fight. But they had only exchanged a single pass when Lu Gong again fled, taking the road among the hills. Sun Jian followed but soon lost sight of his foe.	» Brother Dun -- Bout again -- Ah, for those of you still curious about bouts and passes, here you go. In only a single pass Lu Gong fled, so it is that _Peter is correct.
100 Sun Jian turned up the hill. Then the gongs clanged and down the hills fell showers of stones, while from among the trees the arrows flew in clouds. Sun Jian was hit by several arrows and a huge stone crushed in his head. Both he and his steed were killed. Sun Jian was only thirty-seven years old at his death.	» _Sam B. -- Plan -- Owchie! That looked like it hurt. But give the enemy credit, they were prepared for it. » Gemini213 -- He did say that if he had the Imperial Seal to let his death be violent. » Brave Wei Xiahou Dun -- but still he's way too young, man » Super Dian Wei -- When you swore back then, it was serious! Apparently, God was listening too. » Speaker -- His downfall -- Sun Jian died because he had the habit to charge the enemies himself. He was constantly on the front lines. By doing this he raises the moral of his men but risks his own life. » drunkmastrZhangFei -- Heh -- Too bad he lead from the back? » ScottieTheNerd -- Sun Jian and Cao Cao -- Again, this reflects the contrast between the two great leaders. Cao Cao inspired fear into his enemies, but still lead from behind frontlines. Sun Jian took it upon himself to lead his army into battle, even though it is the duty of his officers. A brave man, but whether or not he was wise in taking such a stand, is debatable. » XiaoQaio -- Death of Sun Jian -- Whoa.... thats a pretty grusome death. Geting shot by arrows, and getting crushed by a huge boulder. Isn't that a little much? » WuTugu -- yeah -- the poor bugger would have died by the arrows, but no they had to throw large boulders at him, then OWWWWWW... that would be so painful feeling every bone in your body crack and snap. » atomicwillie -- still, sun jian had way too many warnings about something like that. -- he constaintly said to let his death be violent if he had the seal, he swore on his life, the flag being snapped in half (by the way, if anyone played dynasty warriors 3, now you understand what the hell that cutseen was about...) and well, he didnt listen to his officer who warned him. so he asked for it... » guanping -- The death of the young and brave Sun Jian -- He had about 3 officers at the time and so couldn't afford to lead from behind. I think he had about only 1 or 2 citys. The Tiger of Jiang Dong (East of the River) was brave, cunning, and strong, but he fell. » XiahouDunwei -- stupit Liu Biao -- Damn Liu Biao! Sun Jian was too cool » Drunken Master -- Sun Jian's reputation -- is generally acknowledged through the wrong respects. His finest moment's weren't against Dong Zhuo; his true shining moments were against the rebels in the south, shortly after the Yellow Scarves Rebellion. These exploits are often overshadowed by his "war" against Liu Biao and his sons' exploits. » Tiamatty -- Leadership style -- I personally feel that the best way to lead is by example. This is what made Sun Jian, and later Sun Ce, such great commanders. They didn't justb sit back, letting everyone else fight. They were right in there, spurring the men on to great deeds. Alexander the Great was much the same. He charged in on his horse, rallying the troops and frightening his enemies. Many of the greatest leaders throughout history have done this. » StormRunner -- Death of Sun Jian -- After playing DW, you'd never expect Sun Jian to do so quickly in the story. » guanping -- This is why we keep saying that this isn't DW -- though they do kill him off in most of them
101 His escort was overpowered and every man of them slain. Then Lu Gong let off a series of bombs, the sign of success, as agreed. At this signal Huang Zu, Kuai Yue, and Cai Mao led three armies out of the city and fell upon the South Land troops, throwing them into the utmost confusion.
102 When Huang Gai heard the sound of battle, he led up the troops from the ships. He met Huang Zu and took Huang Zu prisoner after a brief fight.	» Thwart -- Huang Gai is awesome... -- he was able to take Huang Zu prisoner, with little resistance, shortly after arriving to this "chaotic" battle scene.
103 Cheng Pu set out to bear the sad news to Sun Ce. While he was seeking a way out, he came across Lu Gong. Cheng Pu at once put his horse at full speed and engaged Lu Gong. After a few bouts Lu Gong went down under a spear thrust. The battle became chaotic and continued till daylight broke, when each drew off his army. Liu Biao withdrew into the city.	» darkknight -- good old cheng pu » LiaoHua -- Cheng Pu -- He's really great he avenged his lord by killing the one who killed him, he really should be made into a general
104 When Sun Ce returned to the river, he heard that his father had perished in the fight, and his body had been carried within the enemy's walls. He uttered a great cry, and the army joined him with wailing and tears.	» Gan Ning Fan -- finally.... a reason to cry » SleepingDragon -- poor guy -- The Sun family sure is unfortunate... I feel so sorry for them... what with losing Jian and Mr. two swords guy... » drunkmastrZhangFei -- Hmm -- Reminds me of the Kennedy's » XiaoQaio -- Gasp! Aww.... poor Sun Ce... it's his first battle, and his father dies?? -- Prepare to die, Liu Biao!!! » Seraph -- The Suns -- They get the short end of the stick when it comes to untimely deaths. I won't put down spoilers, but they sure do suffer from it. The Cao's and the Liu's on the other hand seem to be relatively long-lived.
105 "How can I return home leaving my father's corpse with them?" cried Sun Ce.	» _ma chao worshipper -- go get -- Go get them Sun Ce. Kick butt
106 Huang Gai said, "We have Huang Zu as our prisoner. Let one enter the city and discuss peace, giving up our prisoner for our lord's body."	» LuBusSword -- hmm -- i wonder if huang gai and huang zu are related.. » JiaGai -- No. -- This is such a common misconception: Unless the author says they're related, they are NOT.
107 He had barely finished speaking when an officer in the army, Huan Ji, offered himself as messenger, saying, "I am an old friend of Liu Biao. I volunteer to take the mission."
108 Sun Ce agreed. So Huan Ji went and peace was discussed.
109 Liu Biao told Huan Ji, saying, "The body is already laid in a coffin and ready to be delivered as soon as Huang Zu returned. Let us both cease fighting and never again invade each other's territories."
110 Huan Ji thanked him and took his leave.
111 But as Huan Ji went down the steps, Kuai Liang suddenly broke in, saying, "No, no! Let me speak and I will see to it that not a single enemy can survive. I pray you first put this man to death and then to employ my means."
112 Pursuing his enemy, Sun Jian dies; On a peaceful mission, Huan Ji is threatened.	» XiaoQaio -- Death -- sulk... sulk.... that's so sad.... losing a parent must be so emotional. Especially to someone you look up to. » WuTugu -- yeah, his sons were the only thing he had left -- now hes dead, i guess it would be emotional but i would imagine they would want to have revenge more then ever... if you think about it. » XiaoQaio -- Yea, just like in the quote in DW3 -- "FATHER!!! Damn Liu Biao... You shall pay for my father's death!"
113 The fate of the ambassador will be disclosed in a later chapter.	» Damion -- Battle -- What was this battle called?? » Super Dian Wei -- Battle names -- If you are referring to the game with this question, then let me let you in on some thing: a whole lot of battles did not have names. Por ejemplo, there is an uprising in Wei led by Gongson Yuan in which Sima Yi spends a year putting it down, and it is nameless. Well, it probably had a name, but you would have to look it up in a Chinese history book. Anyway, what I am saying is that most of the battles in this book are not mentioned in the game, and we, the readers don't really have anything to call them. » Solens -- names -- If you play DW3, the battle is called Suprise Attack on Liu Biao. » ScottieTheNerd -- Surprise Attack On Liu Biao -- It should be called "Surprise attack *by* Liu Biao". Sun Jian got the worst of it -_- » LiaoHua -- It wasn't much of a suprise, they knew Sun Jian was coming » StormRunner -- I think it should have been called the battle of Sun Jian's Fate. » yuanthedestroyer -- should've been called the battle of "Oww that was a big rock!"

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