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1 The world under heaven, after a long period of division, tends to unite; after a long period of union, tends to divide. This has been so since antiquity. When the rule of the Zhou Dynasty weakened, seven contending kingdoms sprang up, warring one with another until the kingdom of Qin prevailed and possessed the empire. But when Qin's destiny had been fulfilled, arose two opposing kingdoms, Chu and Han, to fight for the mastery. And Han was the victor.	» Explainer -- Seven States and Qin -- Up to this time AD 168, China had had five dynasties: Mythology (BC 5000-2200), Xia Dynasty (BC 2200-1700), Shang Dynasty (BC 1700-1050), Zhou Dynasty (BC 1050-221), Qin Dynasty (BC 221-206), and Han Dynasty (BC 206-AD 220). The Age of Seven States was BC 475-221, which was also known as the Warring States Period. The seven main states were Qin, Chu, Yan, Qi, Wei, Zhao, and Han. At the end of the Warring States Period, Qin conquered other states, and consolidated the empire. The First Emperor [of Qin] is credited with the building of the Great Wall in large scale, but is also blamed for the burning of books and persecuting learned people. Qin lasted only one and a half generations, then the old states emerged again. » Super Dian Wei -- WARNING! -- FOR ANY OF YOU WHO HAVE NOT READ THIS BOOK YET, I HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU DO NOT READ THESE SIDENOTES UNLESS THEY ARE NOTES FROM THE "EXPLAINER". FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS WARNING WILL LEAD TO SERIOUS DISAPPOINTMENT, BECAUSE THE SIDENOTES CONTAIN NUMEROUS SPOILERS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! » JiaGai -- Spoilers and warnings -- No fooling, guys, take heed of this. I, myself, am very guilty of contributing to this and for that I am terribly sorry. Excitement and enthusiasm can do that to you. » Explainer -- We edit all the posts. -- Whenever we see a spoiler in a post, we would delete the spoiler part. But sometimes we leave it unchanged for their note-worthy value. The new notes are the ones that have not gone thru editing and will go thru it in the near future. Please enjoy the contributions from the ROTK readers!!! We thank them all. » iluvNDfootball -- Enter Ye now the Romance of The THree Kingdoms. -- Here, though you may have stupid opinions (like me) there'll always be someone willing to debate and enlighten. Welcome and enjoy these tales of mighty heroes! » Ragnarok -- Listen very carefully. -- This is not Dynasty Warriors. I see so many posts in which people say "But in Dynasty Warriors..." or "That would be good in DW". Please do not get into all that, the site is plagued by people doing that. » Super Dian Wei -- While Dynasty Warriors has very little to do with this site... -- please understand that people won't EVER stop talking about DW because it was THAT GAME that brought many of them here in the first place. » toocold -- Agree -- This book is great, and when discussing it, every aspect should be left open, this includes ideas from DW or ROTK games. But i think somethings only need to be said once, not all names are the same, almost none of the DW weapons were accurate, and none of the women ever took the field except Zhu Rong. Other than that, i don't blame people for asking if this is such and such character from the game, because the game gives a face and a personality to characters that are not always conveyed in the book, so read, post, and have fun. » guanping -- Welcome -- Welcome to the best book in the world. Please read, enjoy, and put your own stuff in later. » DongDal -- And so it starts... -- Here begins perhaps one of the greatest tales of bravery, loyalty and war. I hope everyone enjoys it. » Heika -- A Word of Caution about the Manuscript -- This tale is based upon actual history. The Three Kingdoms, in broad terms, did exist, and the historical context is true. At the same time, this novel is only BASED upon the history, and is therefore inaccurate in certain places. It has even been said that Confucian scholars would not allow their students to study this work, for fear that the aforementioned inaccuracies would taint their understanding of actual Chinese history. Therefore, enjoy this great work of fiction, but do not believe everything that is written. » LordYuanrang -- Welcome to the club. -- A little friendly warning: Once you start read, you will probably get addicted, but hey, when it comes to the RoTK it really is a good thing. I hope you all will love and enjoy it as much as I have.
2 The rise of the fortunes of Han began when Liu Bang the Supreme Ancestor slew a white serpent to raise the banners of uprising, which only ended when the whole empire belonged to Han (BC 202). This magnificent heritage was handed down in successive Han emperors for two hundred years, till the rebellion of Wang Mang caused a disruption. But soon Liu Xiu the Latter Han Founder restored the empire, and Han emperors continued their rule for another two hundred years till the days of Emperor Xian, which were doomed to see the beginning of the empire's division into three parts, known to history as The Three Kingdoms.	» Explainer -- Liu Bang -- Liu Bang (or Gao Zu) (BC 256-195) was the founder of Han Dynasty, aka Western Han or Former Han (capital in Changan). From a farmer family. His first office was assistant to a magistrate in Pei. Joined peasant rebellions against Qin Dynasty. Fought under Chu banner. Became a general, then ennobled as King of Han. In BC 206 Liu Bang defeated the King of Chu Xiang Yu, and won the empire. » Explainer -- Wang Mang and Liu Xiu -- Wang Mang (BC 45-AD 23) was regent and a nephew of the empress dowager Wang. He assumed the throne from AD 9 to 23. Liu Xiu (or Guang Wu) (BC 5-AD 57) (reigned AD 25-57) restored Han after Wang Mang's usurpation. The dynasty Liu Xiu restored is also known as Eastern Han (capital in Luoyang) or Latter Han. » guanping -- Read the intros -- Please I advise you read the Chinese history and the wonderful lecture on the three kingdoms before hand. It really helps you know who they usally are refering to in his book when they speak about men of the past
3 But the descent into misrule hastened in the reigns of the two predecessors of Emperor Xian---Emperors Huan and Ling---who sat in the dragon throne about the middle of the second century.	» Cynoc -- FOR NOOBS! -- IF YOUR A NEW MEMBER TO THE SITE, TO POST SIDE NOTES LIKE THESE YOU HAVE TO SIGN IN AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE AND THEN CLICK THE BLUE NUMBER(S) TO THE LEFT OF EACH PARAGRAPH » MaTseng -- ... -- thanks for that captain obvious » guanping -- Ah well it will probably help somebody -- although I dislike the term noobs » MaTseng -- fine hows... newbie sound? -- besides it's not meant to be mean or anything it's just easier then saying NEW GUYS or new people. » ShenXia -- O.o; -- Helped me when I first posted... » zhenluo -- ooh, post -- 'new guys'...that's a bit sexist 'new people'...better
4 Emperor Huan paid no heed to the good people of his court, but gave his confidence to the Palace eunuchs. He lived and died, leaving the scepter to Emperor Ling, whose advisers were Regent Marshal Dou Wu and Imperial Guardian Chen Fan. Dou Wu and Chen Fan, disgusted with the abuses of the eunuchs in the affairs of the state, plotted the destruction for the power-abusing eunuchs. But Chief Eunuch Cao Jie was not to be disposed of easily. The plot leaked out, and the honest Dou Wu and Chen Fan were put to death, leaving the eunuchs stronger than before.	» Explainer -- The Eunuchs -- Since remote antiquity, eunuchs had been employed in palaces for two main functions: As guards and servants in harems or other women's quarters, and as chamberlains to kings. The eunuchs' confidential position frequently enabled them to exercise an important influence over their royal masters and even to raise themselves to stations of great trust and power. » Explainer -- Regent Marshal and Imperial Guardian -- Regent Marshal was the highest military office, while Imperial Guardian highest civilian office. » ChangshanTiger -- Enter the Eunuchs -- Here we see the first mention of the eunuchs. They hold a lot of power, and have a lot of sway in politics. Throughout all of history, eunuchs have either saved or destroyed kingdoms. Lets see what happens here... » guanping -- Huan and Ling where not always bad but they failed to halt the slide -- Huan was 22 when he became disgusted as to Liang Ji, who effictivly controlled the court. With the help of the eunuchs, he gained control but eunuchs took over. He didn't do to bad as such but not strong enough... just helped the slide into chaos Ling was but a child when Dou and Chen revolt failed, they where hardly honest themselves and they failed in bad style. Still unlucky in some respects about the revolt. Ling then listned to bad advice at times, his love of art didn't help. A questining mind but also a very greedy man, sold postions for his own purse. Eunuchs had great acess to the Son of Heaven and the woman who could talk to him. Any attempt to defy them was soon ended on crimes varying from treason to faction. Any revolt outside the capital was dealt with by Imperial Army. Inside the capital, revolts where dealt with by the eunuch supporting army, eunuch and army combined could take strong points in the city before the revolters even moved. At this point, I belive He Jin was the chief figure against the eunuchs but the odds where against him. Despite being a capable man, Ling's hatred of him and the eunuchs control of China made things nearly impossible.
5 It fell upon the day of full moon of the fourth month, the second year, in the era of Established Calm (AD 168), that Emperor Ling went in state to the Hall of Virtue. As he drew near the throne, a rushing whirlwind arose in the corner of the hall and, lo! from the roof beams floated down a monstrous black serpent that coiled itself up on the very seat of majesty. The Emperor fell in a swoon. Those nearest him hastily raised and bore him to his palace, while the courtiers scattered and fled. The serpent disappeared.	» shenlong -- interesting -- does anyone have any more information on the superstitions, omens and portents of the era during which this all takes place?... i know that RTK shows us alot of them, and this bit about the whirlwind and the monstrous black serpent are really interesting... also, can anyone tell me if there is any historical basis behind any of the superstitious events? » Explainer -- All I know is... -- Liu Bang beheaded a white serpent (a symbol of Qin rule) when he joined the rebellion against Qin. He often called himself a red dragon. Xiang Yu, Liu Bang's rival, happened to call himself a black dragon. Hence, the black serpent may represent a change of Han fortune (Yin/Yang, black/white). Or it could also mean a rivalry for the throne again (Xiang Yu on the dragon couch). » guanping -- Its interesting -- we can guess this never actually happened, so it's quite interesting how supernatural things are writen in. People would have believed this happened The Black Serpent thing is actully recorded in the history of the time, it seems to have been a fog or black cloud that looked like a serpent. » Shokyo -- It's amazing what superstitions can do to people. Salem Witch hunts anyone? » Yunsung -- Oh, I see. Gettin a shot in on the Americans, eh Shokes? :P -- Superstition was prevalent wherever explanations for natural events could not be attained. You are an uneducated peasant. An earthquake occurs, and someone says the gods are angry at, say, your neighbor. They also say that to stop the earthquake, you must kill your neighbor. What are you going to do? » toocold -- serpent -- I'm pretty sure that a black serpent is a bad thing in many places. The appearance of the serpent is a bad omen and also a sign of the times. A black serpent in the emperors throne means that the rule is corrupt.
6 But there followed a terrific tempest, thunder, hail, and torrents of rain, lasting till midnight and working havoc on all sides. Two years later the earth quaked in Capital Luoyang, while along the coast a huge tidal wave rushed in which, in its recoil, swept away all the dwellers by the sea. Another evil omen was recorded ten years later, when the reign title was changed to Radiant Harmony (AD 178): Certain hens suddenly crowed. At the new moon of the sixth month, a long wreath of murky cloud wound its way into the Hall of Virtue, while in the following month a rainbow was seen in the Dragon Chamber. Away from the capital, a part of the Yuan Mountains collapsed, leaving a mighty rift in the flank.	» guanping -- talk about unlucky -- all these disasters, although maybe they're just over normal amount, but with things going badly elsewhere empror this comes to signify losing heaven's favor. Had the Han been doing well, this would just be put down as bad luck » HuChe -- not unlucky -- they proberly didn't happen its just that they are to show that the empire is about to break down » IloveNDfootball -- One quick thing -- In this novel, they did happen. Suspension of disbelief helps make this novel enjoyable. » Heika -- Interpretation of the Signs (As written by one Advisor) -- A rushing whirlwind: a sign of Celestial agitation and a precursor of that which follows. A black serpent in the Imperial chambers: corruption of Imperial power, and a sign of defiance to the Will of Heaven. Terrible storms, earthquakes, and tidal waves: all of these are controlled by different Celestial factions. The fact that they are working in concert for destruction is a sign that the unrighteousness of the Middle Kingdom has reached despicable levels. Hens crowing: this is explained later in the text, and I concur with the explanation given. Murky cloud: given its position (in the Hall of Virtue) and timing (at the new moon of the sixth month,) one would assume that this means that Virtue in the Empire has been clouded, even at the beginning of a new season. Rainbow: two possible interpretations. One is given further on in the text. The other is that, as the rainbow is the "Bridge of Heaven," and given its appearance in the Imperial Chambers, that the current Emperor (and by extension, his dynasty,) is to shortly go to Heaven and be replaced. Collapse of the Yuan mountains: the symbol of stability and security, their collapse presages a time of chaos and turmoil: the fact that a rift was left behind also suggests that rival factions will soon be forming.
7 Such were some of various omens. Emperor Ling, greatly moved by these signs of the displeasure of Heaven, issued an edict asking his ministers for an explanation of the calamities and marvels.
8 Court Counselor Cai Yong replied bluntly: "Falling rainbows and changes of fowls' sexes are brought about by the interference of empresses and eunuchs in state affairs." (See also Sex Reversal)	» shenlong -- ...dayum!... -- "falling rainbows and the changing of fowls' sexes"?!? the hell?... » Super Dian Wei -- Foghorn Leghorn woke up that morning understandably upset... » Kadou -- *laughs* -- Hmm... what does it mean anyway? » LordSunQuan -- ask super dian wei -- why the hell do you seem to know everything SDW, how many years do ya study these things?? i know alot but not as much as you do. » JiaGai -- It was a joke. -- Foghorn Leghorn is a semi-famous cartoon rooster, he'd be pretty pissed if he woke up a hen. You know, if you have to explain it, it kinda loses it's zing. » Explainer -- And the change of birds' sex is common in the old days... -- The change of sex in birds, like hens becoming cocks, is not that rare. What happens is a hen has a wrong arrangement of sex chromosomes (XXY, I think, instead of XY). At some point in its life, the XX chromosomes are activated, and the hen transforms into a cock. (To birds, XX means male, and XY mean female.) In the old days, when chickens are raised in farm (not industrial farm like today), we see that sex-change phenomenon once a while, because the hens with incorrect sex chromosomes live long enough to go thru the activation. But today we rarely see this, because most chickens become meat after certain months. Just so to let you know not all weird things in this book are fiction. I believe the authors have used as many facts as possible; they just cannot include all the details. If you spot something that needs explanation in this novel, and if you know the answer, please post your answer. Thank you very much. » JiangWeiWarrior -- It is all fictional phenomenon ...that's all » Pluvius -- Actually... -- The "sex change" in hens is not caused by hermaphroditism (at least, not in the sense that chickens have fully-functional sets of both male and female reproductive organs), but by hormonal changes caused by damage to the hen's ovaries. Here's a website that explains it in more detail. This article is about pigeons, but it applies just as well to chickens. » TheYellowDwarf -- That Confucius Again! -- Well... this is really not a part of the likeable Chinese culture :( Confucian ethics call for a rigid social structure, of which the ruler holds absolute power over his officials, the parent absolute power over his offspring, and the husband over his wife. To to have a "sex change", which indicates the reversal of the power structure that has the woman in command, or men rendered ineffectual, is in Confucian terms, a sign of great catastrophe to come. » Sorrow -- Confucius is not to Blame! -- This is a Neo-Confucius thought! Confucius only suggested order and filial piety to bring stability to sociaiety. It wasn't until after the Soong Dynasty, that Neo-Confucian thought (which is the absolute power you are talking about) took over. This made women lower-class citizens and suggested that working-class citizen can never be anything else but servants! Original Confucian belief allowed everybody (Male, female regardless of social class) to become educated. He also promoted educated people to speak their minds and contribute to society. According to Confucius, the educated was what kept social stability. Nobody had absolute power! Furthermore, he believed emperors had divine rights but if they become tyrants, they can be overthrown just the same! » ZhaoZilongfan -- 100 YAH!! Back to topic.. -- I find that very interesting that some chickens can change sexes, I also thought that was BS, guess I was wrong. » Shokyo -- Some species of fish can do it too -- If there's no male in a mating ground (I'm sure there's a posh term for it that I can't remember...), then the dominant female takes a few days to change gender. Really... neat. » WUuuu -- the meaning of the sex change -- according to professor Moss Roberts is that the Eunuchs represent the turning of male to female. When the Eunuchs take over power, the male -power- becomes female as well, thus the Hens changing sex is a representation of the upsetting of this natural order.
9 The Emperor read this memorial with deep sighs, and Chief Eunuch Cao Jie, from his place behind the throne, anxiously noted these signs of grief. An opportunity offering, Cao Jie informed his fellows, and a charge was trumped up against Cai Yong, who was driven from the court and forced to retire to his country house.	» BaLiang -- Familiar... -- Those damn eunuchs sound a crapload like the current day politicians... corrupt and lying. » IloveNDfootball -- Parallels -- There's a reason this novel has been around so long. Its very easy to find lessons in here for present day life.
10 With this victory the eunuchs grew bolder. Ten of them, rivals in wickedness and associates in evil deeds, formed a powerful party known as the Ten Regular Attendants---Zhang Rang, Zhao Zhong, Cheng Kuang, Duan Gui, Feng Xu, Guo Sheng, Hou Lan, Jian Shuo, Cao Jie, and Xia Yun.	» LadySun -- History -- Its always amazing how in mythological histories we see an ongoing trend of a struggle of good versus evil. I find this a accurate portrayal of how it is never truly the leader's downfall as much as it is the corruption of the state by either powerful enuchs or warlords. » Seraph -- Good and evil -- Though this is a novel, and a truly classic one at that, there is suprisingle very little good versus evil going on. After the early part of the story, it becomes less of good (Han) Vs. Evil (corruption), and more about Human versus Human, each with their own faults. That is one aspect if the book I find unique and somewhat endearing. There are many, many characters and few are truly villainous. As long as you take the time to reflect on your own about the characters, you will find most of them are worthy of respect.
11 One of them, Zhang Rang, won such influence that he became the Emperor's most honored and trusted adviser. The Emperor even called him "Foster Father". So the corrupt state administration went quickly from bad to worse, till the country was ripe for rebellion and buzzed with brigandage.	» Heika -- Brigands -- The appearance of bandits has two connotations. The first is that the government no longer has the moral authority (or sheer power) to prevent or "correct" these outlaws. The second is that brigands are generally forced to be so due to poor means of living or false charges. The fault lies with the corrupt government of the Han, and not the oppressed people.
12 At this time in the county of Julu was a certain Zhang family, of whom three brothers bore the name of Zhang Jue, Zhang Ba, and Zhang Lian, respectively. The eldest Zhang Jue was an unclassed graduate, who devoted himself to medicine. One day, while culling simples in the woods, Zhang Jue met a venerable old gentleman with very bright, emerald eyes and fresh complexion, who walked with an oak-wood staff. The old man beckoned Zhang Jue into a cave and there gave him three volumes of The Book of Heaven.	» idgarad -- KOEI -- The fundamental problem with the names as you read this is there are 2 systems used to write Chinese in English, both are flawed. In an effort to get the wording as accurate as possible they try to spell it phonetically. Case in point, I was once told by a man that Beijing and Peiking are the same word! Try to say them at the same time and you get more accurate. That is a crucial flaw in how we represent Chinese (and Japanese for that matter) when writing them in english. One method struggles with the way the mouth is shaped. My buddy said the name and it sounds more like when we say "yew" but even then that is my western ears trying to make the sound into a western word. » _YaLecSa -- post -- I think that names such as "Jiao" are not pronounced as we would see them if they were written as an English word. Instead of saying "Jee-yow", I think it may be meant to be pronounced "Jyow". As far as I can tell, pretty much all the names in this are one syllable each, with the odd exception like "Zhuge" or "Sima". In other words, Try to pronounce all the names in this as single syllables. » _Salmon -- Name -- I understand that the name may have origionally been Zhang Jue. How did KOEI change it to Zhang Jiao? » dgr81 -- pretty sure that it should be pronounced zhang jiao, and jue is a mispronounciation » _Asylum Escapee -- Zhang Jue sounds nothing like Zhang Jiao. Jue sounds something like "Jyeh", not Jew. » _Shige -- Bear in mind that the pronunciation of Jiao is closer to Jo than Ji-ow... -- although yes, the two names are so far apart as to be different people... anyone got any evidence other than ROTK for namings? » _Solens -- Surname -- The names are all one syllable because the Chinese language is made up of single characters, and Zhuge is actually a dual surname, two characters, like with a hyphen between Zhu and Ge. Same for Sima where it is between Si and Ma. » ManicManchu -- notice that in eastern cultures they use their family (last) name -- before their own.... I wonder if they had middle names » lordhuangzhong -- Cao is pronounced Tsao Tsao not Kao Kao. » nlink -- My stance has changed. -- Blame the gullible and misinformed fools, not the company. It's not Koei's fault that some people are too dumb to recognize the differences. » guanping -- Jue following stranger into cave? -- I know he looked odd but someone who follows a strange man into a cave should perhaps not be chosen to lead an army (or rather rabble). Would anyone have followed the stranger today? » Tiamatty -- Following strangers -- His curiosity obviously got the better of him. I guess he had a gut feeling he could trust the old dude. » Drackor -- He could have been given the book... -- BECAUSE of his bravery for stepping into the unknown without hesitation.
13 "This book," said the old gentleman, "is the Essential Arts of Peace. With the aid of these volumes, you can convert the world and rescue humankind. But you must be single-minded, or, rest assured, you will greatly suffer."	» JiaGai -- Essential Arts of Peace -- It amuses me how "Arts of Peace" were used to ignite a bloody rebellion that continued throughout much of San Guo Yan Yi. » Super Dian Wei -- post -- "You must be single minded"... sounds like school is in session for the super-religous FREAKS! If it is a leader you want to be, being single-mided is the last thing you want to be. Is that flawed or what? » YoungZhugeLiang -- skrewy -- Anyone see how skewed up this is? The book Essential Art of Peace starts a war and teaches how to cast spells that kill. Is it just me or does anyone else find this weird!!! » TonTon -- healing spells -- not all the spells were used to kill, as one of the later chapters says, he charmed remedies with these spells which were great successes. » ziyou -- Single Minded -- I think this means that he must be completely determined to use the powers for peace and good causes. If he were to use them for personal gain, terrible things could result. » toocold -- books/wars -- Most wars are started by books preaching peace. Bible/Koran you get the idea? as for being single minded, i think it means he has to be totally dedicated to his cause. he cant stop to doddle with politics, and such. The name of the book is a contradiction, but in all honesty, how many times throught the course of history has anything really changed goor or bad, without war first and then political rebuilding? You can't say that talking things out is the best way to deal with problems, because some people just dont listen. Anyway most of todays powers owe that power to military conquest. » guanping -- An example about toocold's statement is WW1 and WW2 -- millions of lives lost but in the end it united Europe. Perhaps there won't be a war between European countrys for another 1000 years but I doubt it. » EmperorMiki -- Retrospect -- Read the first sentence of the book. » cFodder -- Essential Arts of Peace is not really a contradiction... -- We view peace today in the context of a society that has everything it can ever want only a phone call away and where there's never really a shortage of anything (outbreak of avian flu? Price of chickens goes up a tiny bit - the heavens must be punishing our wickedness!). We view war as an evil because it's simply unnecessary - military might brough nations under the power of economic influence, and now that is used as the dominant means of persuasion (war is bad, so we just don't invade evil regimes, we just don't send them food until their people starve to death and overthrow them for us - everyone wins!) For a recent example of how things might be different: Were I living in northern Sudan at the moment, and hordes of bandits intent on destroying all non-islamic human life roamed the country-side - I would permit the use of potentially deadly force in expediting the safe conduct of my and my dependants to a safer area in which our necessary needs could be met. Now let's assume we're back in ancient times and there's no UN, no aid agencies and refugee camps with trained doctors and medical supplies waiting for us. The options are two-fold: 1) Kill bandits 2) Bandits kill you then rape/kill and pillage everyone and everything you care about. In this option this situation the only option for my living in 'Peace' is through war. This is not irony, but a simple statement of a particular scenario that reappears throughout history; people have faced it in the past and will face it in the future. To live in peace, one must not neglect the affairs of war. » Drackor -- cFodder is absolutely right... -- There is a saying. "To achieve peace, prepare for war." This saying even extends to now, where there are times when we have to increase the size of our military and our arms to scare potential threats into seeing that attacking us is a bad idea. Also, when you look at the state of affairs in the country, there really is no other way to incite change for the positive than to overthrow the current leadership class. They certainly can't go to the Emperor, plead their case, then have him say. "You are right! I'm evil and selfish and care nothing for the people! Let me abdicate my throne to you, who have shown me the error in my ways!" Also, on single minded. This is a reoccurring quality that comes with any religious and supernatural teachings. This is because single minded is also close minded and someone who is close minded is easy to breed into a Zealot or Fanatic. » Heika -- Will of Heaven -- Thus we see the first attempt for Heaven to remove the Han dynasty. By granting near-miraculous powers to one who was willing to brave the unknown, the Han could indeed be "converted" and the corruption in the government would be stopped. Or, such is the hope. » HotBread -- Old Hermit and Simple-Minded -- I agree with Ziyou "Single Minded -- I think this means that he must be completely determined to use the powers for peace and good causes. If he were to use them for personal gain, terrible things could result." That is what single-minded was suppose to mean. Having said that, i go on to my other interpretations. In ancient chinese literature, old hermits are almost always viewed as wise men who are pure of heart. There was (and still is today to a certain extend) a general profound respect for old men who are knowledgeable in the ways of chinese medicine and fortune telling. It can be assumed that the old hermit who gives Zhang Jue the Essential Arts of Peace had faith that Zhang Jue will use its knowledge to bring peace to the world. The old hermit also warns Zhang Jue to be "single minded." At the time Zhang Jue received the book, he was much like the old hermit (pure of heart, seeking knowledge, etc.) But after Zhang Jue took the book and gained followers, he became corrupted by his power and "dreamed of empire." Therefore, he was no longer "Single-Minded" and the book's powers eventually led to years of war. What the Old Hermit had intended was that Zhang Jue become a powerful sage living among the world of men, and converting them to ways of peace through his powers. He did not mean for Zhang Jue to become a political leader using his powers. Zhang Jue, basically, was supposed to work alone, using his magic to cleanse corrupt emperors, politicians, etc. » guanping -- maybe the hermit could have done something during Zhang Jue's plotting -- I think the whole point was either Heaven's way to start the war which really sped up the Han's demise or that Zhang Jue lost his way.
14 With a humble obeisance, Zhang Jue took the book and asked the name of his benefactor.	» LadySun -- Theory -- Reminds me of a story about someone handing someone else two stone tablets with laws towards salvation...^_- common themes eh? » MasterLiang -- hmmmm.... -- Saint Hermit- I Am who I Am...... :)
15 "I am Saint Hermit of the Southern Land," was the reply, as the old gentleman disappeared in thin air.	» _Shige -- Saint Hermit -- Er...has anyone got a better translation of this? » _DW maniac -- transation for disapear dude -- THe Moss Roberts version has this "i am the old hermit from mount hua summit-zhuang zi the taoist sage » Explainer -- Names -- Ancient Chinese celebrities often go by styles (nick names) or titles or by names given by the people. For example, the Teacher or the Holy One (Confucius), the Supreme Ancestor (Liu Bang), the Duke of Zhou, the First Emperor, and here, Saint Hermit. In this translation, the real names are inserted into the styles whenever possible to clarify who is who. » _Solens -- Characters -- The title is actually two characters, but the translation is direct. Therefore the title sounds weird. » Yorak -- Perhaps "The Hermit Saint?" Or "The Sainted Hermit?" » Tyler -- southern saint name -- The spelling may not be right but in ROTK VIII game the southern saint or mystic was called Lou Dou. » TheYellowDwarf -- Translation -- I would call him "Demigod of Nanhua" or "Immortal of Nanhua". This involves a bit of Daoism, which includes the belief of entities called "Xian" who are immortal, and wield magical powers. The religious Daoists practice Qi Gong, make "Immortal Pills" to achieve this end. The old man here is not a mortal human, but some sort of quasi-deity. » IloveNDfootball -- Thanks. We've needed a translator for quite a while, and the more we have, the better. » PesssimstByNature -- Immortal seems right. -- Yeah. A Taoist immortal was the first thing that came to my mind when I read this passage. » TheYellowDwarf -- Actually -- I was looking through a Moss Robert's translation and the "Immortal of Nanhua" turns out to be the Taoist title for Chuangtzu (a.k.a. Zhuang Zi, ?-275 BCE) - a philosopher in the Warring States era - who was posthumously credited as one of the founders of the Taoist religion and later worshipped as one of the Taoist gods. FYI, the main work of Zhuang Zi, a self-titled book, is also called "The Scripture of Nanhua" in Chinese.
16 Zhang Jue studied the wonderful book eagerly and strove day and night to reduce its precepts to practice. Before long, he could summon the winds and command the rain, and he became known as the Mystic of the Way of Peace.	» shenlong -- i wouldn't mind borrowing that book when he's done with it... -- anyone know if the book Zhang Jue got from that holy hermit fella is real? archaeologically speaking, it might be worth something if it was actually found... » Shokyo -- post -- It was probably put in to make it look like some heavenly person wanted Zhang Jiao to find the book, hence the little Chinese belief of "if Heaven wants it, it'll be that way." So all the heavenly people now decide that the time of the Han is over, and that they would like something new. » Heika -- Miracles? -- While it is greatly unlikely that Zhang Jue could REALLY summon wind and rain, the fact that this was attributed to him was a great compliment. For a mostly agricultural economy, summoning rain and wind in proper amounts would make one a venerated being, and also shows the favor of the Heavens.
17 In the first month of the first year of Central Stability (AD 184), there was a terrible pestilence that ran throughout the land, whereupon Zhang Jue distributed charmed remedies to the afflicted. The godly medicines brought big successes, and soon he gained the tittle of the Wise and Worthy Master. He began to have a following of disciples whom he initiated into the mysteries and sent abroad throughout all the land. They, like their master, could write charms and recite formulas, and their fame increased his following.	» shenlong -- reign styles... -- does anyone have a list or something with all the imperial reign styles covered during the RTK period? it would be nice to have something like that to reference... so far we've got the era of "Radiant Harmony", and the era of "Central Stability" (which ironically it -really- wasn't)... » darkknight -- they have to make the reign styles sound impressive -- era of "bloody massacre" doesn't sound too good » guanping -- maybe the book was medical. It would have seemed like magic to everyone. -- Remember there was no real control of the south, so if a retiring doctor or one from another country gave him it (would perhaps explain the appearance) then he would be seen as a miracle worker. Jue could just have made most of the story up, people would still believe him now as well as then. » Devild -- The Yellow Turban -- So this is how it all started, hmm they really didnt seem like they were bad guys at all. » lucasdnguyen -- Yellow Turbans -- They probably weren't that bad, but the book was written from the perspective of the gentry class that opposed such subversive revolutionary movements. The Turbans probably were just a bunch of peasants who wanted to overthrow their landlords or something, and they saw the shaman guy as a powerful leader who would lead them to freedom. Or something like that. » IloveNDfootball -- Mao Zedong wanted to rewrite Three Kingdoms... -- replacing Luo Guangzhong's hero, Liu Bei, with the Yellow Turbans.
18 Zhang Jue began to organize his disciples. He established thirty-six circuits, the larger with ten thousand or more members, the smaller with about half that number. Each circuit had its chief who took the military title of General. They talked wildly of the death of the blue heaven and the setting up of the golden one; they said a new cycle was beginning and would bring universal good fortune to all members; and they persuaded people to chalk the symbols for the first year of the new cycle on the main door of their dwellings.	» shenlong -- WARNING! religious question: -- does anyone know if the appearance of Zhang Jue and the yellow turbans is really historical fact, or a metaphor for the spread of christianity, or perhaps a mix of the two? so far this Zhang Jue guy and his followers are starting to sound like Jesus Christ and his twelve apostles, aren't they? (well, at least they were in the previous paragraph... here, they are militarizing their organization, which seem quite un-christian-like)... » JiaGai -- Christians did NOT show up in China til much, much later. -- The Yellow Scarves/Turban Rebellion did occur. It's a very important and significant event that heralds the downfall of the Later Han and indirectly brings about the rise of the Three Kingdoms era. » lucasdnguyen -- Yellow Turbans -- I believe that the Turbans were a neo-Taoist mystical movement, according to my history books. » Heika -- Structure of the Yellow Turbans -- While there are some parallels between the Yellow Turbans and Christianity, they are shared by almost all revolutionary religions, and should not been seen as an allegory.
19 With the growth of the number of his supporters grew also the ambition of Zhang Jue. The Wise and Worthy Master dreamed of empire. One of his partisans, Ma Yuanyi, was sent bearing gifts to gain the support of the eunuchs within the Palace.	» Zilong -- Names -- Ma Yuanyi in the Novel becomes Ma Yuan Yi in Koei's Dynasty Warriors 3. Why? » _Mr.Porky -- Chinese Names sometimes consist of 3 syllables... -- thus Ma Yuanyi in reality consist of 3 chinese characters(If you pronunce it in chinese). Ma Yuan Yi. It all depends on who's translating and how they pronounce/write it in english. » DongDal -- Oh dear... This was the very thing the Sainted Hermit told him not to do.
20 To his brothers Zhang Jue said, "For schemes like ours always the most difficult part is to gain the popular favor. But that is already ours. Such an opportunity must not pass."
21 And they began to prepare. Many yellow flags and banners were made, and a day was chosen for the uprising. Then Zhang Jue wrote letters to Feng Xu and sent them by one of his followers, Tang Zhou, who alas! betrayed his trust and reported the plot to the court. The Emperor summoned the trusty Regent Marshal He Jin and bade him look to the issue. Ma Yuanyi was at once taken and beheaded. Feng Xu and many others were cast into prison.	» Explainer -- Feng Xu is one of the Ten Regular Attendants.
22 The plot having thus become known, the Zhang brothers were forced at once to take the field. They took up grandiose titles: Zhang Jue the Lord of Heaven, Zhang Ba the Lord of Earth, and Zhang Lian the Lord of Human. And in these names they put forth this manifesto:	» william -- names -- Zhang Jue, Zhang Ba and Zhang Lian were all changed by KOEI into Zang Jhiao, Zhang Bao and Zhang liang why? I don't see why change their names by adding some characters. » JiaGai -- Actually -- As far as Zhang Ba goes, this particular translation altered it because there's another person named Zhang Bao that appears later on. The change was made to avoid confusion. As for Zhang Jue, that's an alternate "romanized" spelling of his name. » ZhangLiaoRulz -- Names -- It is obvious that one or more is reading this book because of influence from such games like Dynasty Warriors 3 and 4, which i was influenced by to read this book. im only 12! » IloveNDfootball -- DW -- Ah, the greatness of those games, getting people to read and enjoy this! Thanks KOEI! » Zhugefollower -- Me -- Im 14 and i have read this book 5 times » WuTugu -- yeah -- ive only read the book once but if it wasnt for Koei then i wouldnt be interested in the story line. » guanping -- DW introduced me to this wonderful book » Pluvius -- I played the first Rot3K on the NES back in the late 80's. -- Been a fan of both Koei and Rot3K ever since. » XiahouDunis God -- My first ROTK based game was DOAE -- Destiny of an emperor, on regular nintendo. It was an RPG featuring the three brothers. I still think it is a great game. And shortly after I noticed the book, at my library, so I picked it up and read it. Holy crap I feel old now, that was like 13 years or so ago. Long live Regular Nintendo!! » WUuuu -- The NES was the Greatest -- You should get the games again for the computer, its amazing how well they hold up. » guansghost -- God bless Koei -- Nintendo should come out with a gamecube master disc, or something with all of the old NES games. » lordhuangzhong -- i was 9when i played dw2 and i read the whole book » Ragnarok -- Good for you. -- It isn't an accomplishment to be able to read. Even less so at the age of nine. First game I played was ROTK IV. Then I played a few more. Then I played *shudders* Dynasty Warriors 3. By God that game was terrible. Kessen 2 Wasn't much better... » Shokyo -- post -- After playing Dynasty Warriors 4, then playing 3, I think I'd have to agree with you. I have read a brief explanation of Kessen 2 (on yueying.net) but since I haven't played I won't be making any judgements. » Ragnarok -- Heh. I hate the hype more than the game. » DragonAtma -- Aww.... -- Aww... I didn't play an Ro3K game until I got Ro3K2 in late 1993. ;( » IloveNDfootball -- Don't feel bad -- I knew nothing about this period until I played DW3 in 2001 (which I ironically prefer to DW4, each battle is more unique), and didn't get here until probably 2002. » BraveZuMao -- hey, don't rag on DW3. -- That game was kickass if you hadn't played any of the others before it. The voices were better than 4, the graphics were better and it seemed altogether more creative than 4. That game got me here so defending it is only right. » PeasantofLiuBei -- I AGREE -- I bought dw2 when i was 11 or so n didnt know of an english translation of the book until now!!! Poor me. » anrui -- dw3 was, in my opinion, a better game than the other dws. » RobWar -- a big fan -- I started my intrest in this storyline with ROT3K 2 for the SNES in 1993, I soon followed by getting ROT3K, and Destiny of an emperor, both great games. Since then I now have played and own the previous and: ROT3K 7,8,9 (can't find 6, and 8 is my fav.), DW 3,4, Extreme Legends 3,4, Empires (Empires is my fav of those), and Kessen (is ok but not great). Now that I know there is a actual novel of this I cant wait to read more and more ever day, Koei is great for bringing this to the US.
23 "The good fortune of the Han is exhausted, and the Wise and Worthy Man has appeared. Discern the will of Heaven, O ye people, and walk in the way of righteousness, whereby alone ye may attain to peace."	» Wan Jiang -- The actual powers of Zhang Jiao -- Even though he is supposedly powerful enough to hold the Mandate, he has little interest in the common people, maintaining the idea that enlightenment is only attainable through self-study. It just goes to show how even in early times, the louder religious types usually get cast in a negative light in opposition to the modesty of Taoist priests. » JiaGai -- the yellow turbans -- It's intellectual and spiritual elitism disguised as a revolutionary movement, then. In that case, the Yellow Turbans were destined to fail, if only because most common folk wouldn't bother or wouldn't get it. » Shokyo -- He could at least use shorter words. -- Let me know but I'm not sure most people actually went to school. I think the people were probably just impressed by his vast vocabulary. » Solace -- it's kind of a vague proclamation -- that doesn't really say much of anything substantial. You'd think that the leaders of a massive rebellion would outline their goals for their followers a little more clearly. » Tiamatty -- The Yellow Turbans were a revolution of the people. -- It was the common folk who were behind it. They got the message that the government was bad and needed replaced, and they agreed. I'd hardly call it "intellectual and spiritual elitism," as it was meant to appeal to the masses. As for his wording, don't forget, this is a translation of a novel based on historical accounts. There's a very good chance that what he said was nothing like this. He very well may have used more common speech in his proclamation.
24 Support was not lacking. On every side people bound their heads with yellow scarves and joined the army of the rebel Zhang Jue, so that soon his strength was nearly half a million strong, and the official troops melted away at a whisper of his coming.	» _Nu Wa -- scarves -- "...On every side people bound their HEADS with yellow SCARVES." Arent scarves worn on one's neck? The passage should be "...On every side people bound their HEADS with yellow TURBANS." Maybe thats where the whole scarves/turbans debate began. » _Toyzferall -- Turbans -- Hmmm... Yeah, I remember them referred to as the Yellow Turbans... ((Then again, all my previous knowledge is from DW3...)) But perhaps they really did put scarves around thier head, though they just appeared to be turbans? Ah well... » MisterBiohazard -- Concerning the turbans -- Well, it's not uncommon for someone in Middle Eastern countries and some parts of Europe to wear scarves or shawls as headdresses. These types of clothing may have a unique name than a "scarf", but the article is basically the same thing. » idgarad -- The Head Comment -- I many earlier cultures the neck was considered part of the head, this is similar in writings of the middle east where Jesus was pierced through the hands, referring to his wrists. Again in that time the wrist was considered a part of the hand. If they wore the scarves on their neck it might have been correct for the time period to refer to the neck as part of the head. » _panda -- Yellow turban/scarf - just take it as yellow cloth -- I have read the Chinese text and the item is definitely worn on the head. The Chinese text refers to the rebels as Yellow Scarf/Turban/Kerchief/Bandana (the Chinese character means a piece of cloth and this scarf/turban distinction never bothered the Chinese) Army. » GuanYu7 -- DW3 Missleading -- DW3 is an awsome game as anyone you has played it knows. But KOEI changed some of the names, and details. If my memory serves me, they were more like that of a scarf rapped around the head, not as thick as a turban. The word scarves is more fitting to the Yellow Dragon's followers uniforms. » _Tou Mu -- post -- I've been researching the Boxer Rebellion of 1900, and I can draw some parallels between them and the Yellow Scarves. There are pictures of the Boxers wearing what look like bandanas on their heads, only their color was crimson. I could see how something could be both a 'scarf' and a 'turban' at the same time without losing any meaning: a scarf used as a turban. » _Fe1250 -- The scarf turban thing -- what they were were a peice of cloth like a scarf raped around there head. not a full turban » SkyAnimal -- scarves -- "Bandanna" is a newer, hispanic word that describes what they mean by these "yellow turbans." Think of how you would wrap a bandana around your head, and that describes what they were doing. » _Asylum Escapee -- Translation -- I beleive the direct translation is 'Yellow Cloth'. Thus, it can be read as Turban or Scarf, or anything to that extent » XiaoQaio -- Yellow Turbans -- In Dynasty Warriors 3, the Yellow Turbans did have scarves, but some had turbans... » toocold -- turbans -- I think the problem is that we're trying to give it an english word. I'm a spanish major and I come across the problem all the time. As a culture we dont have experience with wrapping things around our heads. So what ever their word is, is what it should be called. The same way we dont rename an "bandana" which is spanish, we shouldnt re-name whatever it is that they wear. Perhaps if someone knows the chinese word for that... » HotBread -- Turban -- I am Chinese and im able to speak the language fluently. The chinese word used for "Turban" (even though it didnt really mean turban) in the novel was Jin---pronounced "Jn". It means a piece of cloth. In modern chinese, it could mean Turban if the words Tou (head) Jin (clothe) were used together or scarf if the words Wei(surround) Jin(clothe) were used together. I think members of the yellow turban rebellion wore any articles of yellow clothing since yellow was a very rarely worn color in ancient china. Only the emperor was allowed to wear a full yellow dragon robe.
25 Regent Marshal and Imperial Guardian, He Jin, memorialized for general preparations against the Yellow Scarves, and an edict called upon everyone to fight against the rebels. In the meantime, three Imperial Commanders---Lu Zhi, Huangfu Song, and Zhu Jun---marched against them in three directions with veteran soldiers.	» Ledrug -- Some clarification -- Well here is probably some confusion caused by inadequate translation. Firstly, based on original Chinese text, it's not mentioned anywhere that He Jin held the title "Imperial Guardian". Secondly, both "Regent Marshal" and "Imperial Guardian" are kind of bad choice of words. Literally, the first should have been "Great General" or "Head of Generals," while the second should have been "Royal Advisor/Teacher/Mentor." Both were regular positions that had always existed, and their holders, while normally close to the Emporer at personal levels, don't necessarily have any excessive power. » darkknight -- He Jin -- with the powers of regent and imperial guardian he must have been more powerful than the emperor. was the emperor more of a title at this stage or would he actually be very powerful? » Rahonavis -- He Jin as Regent Marshall -- Indeed, the Regent traditionally rules assisting the young emperor. however it usually gets out of hand when the Regent upsurges and takes over the crown. Eventually he overthrows the emperor and establishes himself as emperor. Many men who has tasted 'REAL' power are unwilling to relinquish it. » DongDal -- Thus the saying "Real power is never given. It's taken." » Heika -- He Jin -- This Regent, however, appeared to be the "ideal" kind, only holding power until the true emperor could assume command. It is heartening, at the very least, that he still sought permission from the Son of Heaven before creating his army. » cFodder -- Appearances can be deceiving, Heika... -- We don't see here whether he truly supports the crown or not. Wielding supreme power, even the greatest tyrants of this novel generally ask the emperor 'permission' for anything they do. It's not like it is actually within the Prince of Heaven's power to deny them.
26 Meanwhile Zhang Jue led his army into Youzhou, the northeastern region of the empire. The Imperial Protector of Youzhou was Liu Yan, a scion of the Imperial House. Learning of the approach of the rebels, Liu Yan called in Commander Zhou Jing to consult over the position.	» Explainer -- Region -- Ancient China was divided into nine administrative regions or zhou's. Each region had a capital city, often of the same name. The nine regions were Bingzhou, Jingzhou, Jizhou, Liangzhou, Qingzhou, Xuzhou, Yizhou, Youzhou, and Yuzhou. Over the time more regions were created. During the Three Kingdoms period, there were already more than nine regions. A few of the new regions were Xizhou, Yangzhou, and Yongzhou. Imperial Protector was the highest office in an administrative region. » _peter -- post -- zhou is the meaning of state. just let you know and make the meaning of sentence more clear. Instead Jingzhou, you can call it state of Jing
27 Zhou Jing said, "They are many and we few. We must enlist more troops to oppose them."
28 Liu Yan agreed, and he put out notices calling for volunteers to serve against the rebels. One of these notices was posted up in the county of Zhuo, where lived one man of high spirit.
29 This man was no mere bookish scholar, nor found he any pleasure in study. But he was liberal and amiable, albeit a man of few words, hiding all feeling under a calm exterior. He had always cherished a yearning for high enterprise and had cultivated the friendship of humans of mark. He was tall of stature. His ears were long, the lobes touching his shoulders, and his hands hung down below his knees. His eyes were very big and prominent so that he could see backward past his ears. His complexion was as clear as jade, and he had rich red lips.	» _anonymous -- wtf -- they make liu bei sound deformed » DarkDragon -- .................... -- WTF are they getting at? you'd think liu bei was a mutant from this description » Na Wu Tang -- lol -- yea your right hes like a bearded gnome or somthing » _Toyzferall -- ... -- Yer right... Holy schnit he sounds messed up. I like the way he looks in DW3... » MisterBiohazard -- ... -- If anyone played RTKVII, you might notice his earlobes ARE a bit long, like in the novel... » _Wen Choung -- post -- In Chinese tradition, certain physical features represent details about ur life, for example, I kno that a long nose represents longevity. To be honest, I don't kno wut the descriptions of Liu Bei mean though. » idgarad -- The Ears -- Beauty's definition has changed over time. Like many clutures in Africa big earlobes (or lips, or necks, etc..) are a mesure of wealth. In many cultures of that era the wealthy would place a gold coin in the ear lobe, the bigger the lobe, the bigger the coin. And like so many things in history, bigger IS better » _Sam B. -- Visual aids -- The description does sound a little farfetched, but if you've played the games, just visualize the images of the generals in your mind and the story seems easier to see in your minds eye » Joe_Long -- Not Deformed. -- I think that each of his deformities in the paragraph are more likely meant as symbols. Ie: "His ears were long, the lobes touching his shoulders," were probably symbolism for listening and understanding all that he heard. 'Cause let's face it, who would want to become brothers with the troll that is described here. » _panda -- ear lobes and eyes -- The original Chinese text said he had long ear lobes touching the shoulders. This website got that right. However the text did not say the eyes could look past the eye lobes, it said the eyes could see the ear lobes, that was a surplus sentence used as a literary device to emphasise the ear lobes were really long. The jade bit meant white jade, I think it should be made clear. Chinese traditionally regards long ear lobes sigifies good fortune. Empirically I observed that the few remaining World War I and II Veterans have longer than average ears. » lord_alden -- Hmm. -- Very interesting some of the comments here. But I do agree, such long ear lobes that they hang to his shoulders. Such long arms that his hands hang past his knees. Eye large enough to see PAST his ears? My God. He's like an orangutan with long ears! » Chouhi -- About ears -- A bit of additional info on the ears... I have a mainland Chinese coworker, and we are often scolded by our boss for talking during work. My friend then proceeded to give the boss the nickname Liu Bei, because the boss could hear us no matter how low we whispered... when I asked why, she said "because Liu Bei has big ears that reach to his shoulders". I take this to mean that the ears are a symbol that Liu Bei could hear anything. In the text, it may signify that he was able to listen to the wishes of his followers, which is why he was so loved by them. » _Peter -- The author was royal to Han and therefore to Liu -- Long ears and long arms are symbols for Liu Bei to be different from ordinary people. That's all! Nothing regarding the capabality of his vision, comprehension, and catching something with his hands. In ancient China, people believed that Emperor was son of heaven Emperor, so he had to be superior to anybody. The author of book was royal to Han Dynasty and thought that only Lu Bei was a qualified successor of Han, so he gave all good charateristics and descriptions to him. However, in modern society, people extended the meaning of long ear to mean someone has too sensitive listening comprehension and be able to hear of something belonging to somebody's private life. there is similar term "Long tongue" meaning big mouth or talklike. But this modern use is fully apart from the original book. » _KeeruuHiroshi -- Symbols -- These must be symbols. Big ears and eyes usually mean he can hear and see well. Im not sure about the arms. They use a lot of symbolism in many ancinet texts » Explainer -- Big earlobes -- Liu Bei has big earlobes, and not big ears. In Buddhism, big earlobes indicate a person is intuitive, calm, loving, and full of virtues. The longer a person meditates, the longer her earlobes grow. All the sacred figures have their earlobes touch their shoulders. I am not sure what long arms mean. But my feeling is that the book wants to portray extraordinary people as odd-looking, just like all the gods and demons in the temples. Their looks do not need appeal; they just need a striking impression. » sdhoirm -- Yes -- Liu Bei certainly had long ears. THese were so he could here his followers. The eyes met he could see far and he could see threw lies. The arms ment he work well with what he was doing. His skin color ment he was very fair to look upon, as in Celtic history. His lips signified his mouth meaning he was a very smooth talker. seanosc@epals.com » DW Maniac -- long ears -- Long ears represent royalty in budist iconography » ChaoYun -- Changing times -- Good thing that people didn't care about appearances, if he came up to me these days i'd be petrified, full of virtue or not, well, how many long earlobed, long armed, eyes bulging out to see past his ears people do you see these days? we're talking cartoon characters here! » Shokyo -- In Buddhism, it was popular to wear very big earrings, that were heavy... -- therefore stretched the ear lobes. Confucius, Siddartha Gotama and Lao Tzu actually all lived pretty much around the same time. Just as a side note of a side note, that's why Chinese religion was kind of a mix of Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism and folklore religion. » ChangshanTiger -- Imagine the thought.... -- Liu Bei chucks a Red Riding Hood and visits Sun Shang Xiang.... Liu Bei - *dressed as a warrior* Oh hello! Sun Shang Xiang! SSX - Oh, father, its you! But...what long ears you have.... LB - all the better to hear you with, dear SSX - But what big eyes you have.... LB - All the better to see you with, dear SSX - But what pale skin you have... LB - Yes my dear, I was fighting the evil Yellow Turbans and fell in the river, so I froze & only just rethawed... SSX - But what long arms you have... LB - Yes, my dear, the ice stretched them SSX - *suspicious now* But its summer, how could you freeze? LB - Er....*runs off* sorry, know its corny, but I couldnt resist :P » masakenji -- the description just descibes his personalities -- and some are metaphors which have different meanings in chinese. big ears - wise and patience » IloveNDfootball -- Also, remember that these men were ancient Chinese versions of comic book heroes. -- We describe our superheroes as having unique characteristics, like blue skin and fur, and they probably did the same. » zhenluo -- 0 -- Long earlobes are a sign of longevity and good luck, check out all the drawings of Buddha and other Chinese deities. » DongDal -- Good luck? Liu Bei?
30 He was a descendant of Prince Sheng of Zhongshan whose father was the Emperor Jing (reigned BC 157-141), the fourth emperor of the Han Dynasty. His name was Liu Bei. Many years before, one of his forbears had been the governor of that very county, but had lost his rank for remissness in ceremonial offerings. However, that branch of the family had remained on in the place, gradually becoming poorer and poorer as the years rolled on. His father Liu Hong had been a scholar and a virtuous official but died young. The widow and orphan were left alone, and Liu Bei as a lad won a reputation for filial piety.	» Shokyo -- Filial Piety -- I have just been reading on Chinese Religions (mainly coz I have no idea what it is all about) but that's not the point. Confucius said that kindness towards humanity was one of the most important qualities to develop, and that if children honoured their parents, he said they would beomce respectful adults who would make a good stable harmonious society. So kindness and Filial Piety. And now harmony. Confucius was primarily concerned with what was going on on Earth, but he also believed that humanity was guided by a higher power, AKA, heaven. This early teaching was developed by a guy called Meng Tzu who believed that there was a direct connection between heaven and earth. And Heaven disapproves of chaos, and really likes harmony. Eventually harmony became to be seen as the balance of two conflicting forces known as yin and yang. » Bastardman -- post -- I have the first volume of the Brewitt-Taylor version of ROTK, which uses the Yale version of names as opposed to the Pinyin versions (ie. Liu Pei = Liu Bei). But, all the characters also seem to have their official name and unofficial name (ie. Liu Bei is also called Liu Yuan-te or simply Yuan-te). Would Yuan-te be a name that only somebody close to him would call him? » _DWManiack -- Name -- in the Moss Roberts version of the book they call him xuande. in china your first name is last and vice-versa, there is also a 'style' name which is more formal, a popular belief of why they use his style but other people's regular names is that he is the protagonist of the novel and they use his style as a sign of respect. » _Solens -- Second Name -- People in Ancient China had second names. You should know that Zhuge Liang can be called Kong Ming. » Explainer -- Style names -- Like a modern writer who often has a pen name, ancient people who wrote or painted or were distinguished in a field tended to pick unique names for themselves. Those names often appeared in their signature seals. When spoken in English, the names don't have any meaning. But in Chinese, those name are very descriptive, such as Liu Xuande (Liu Bei) means Liu the Deeply Virtuous, or Cao Mangde (Cao Cao) means Cao the Abundantly Virtuous, etc. Of course, in Chinese, those names don't sound obnoxious, because like George Bush or James Baker, the names don't strongly indicate a bush or a baker. Since styles may confuse the non-Chinese-speaking readers, this edition does not include most them. It keeps only the styles that have impact in conversation, like "Sleeping Dragon", "Young Phoenix", etc. In this case, the styles are translated directly to convey their meanings. A few other styles you may wish to know are Yide of Zhang Fei (firm virtue), Yunchang of Guan Yu (long clouds), Zilong of Zhao Yun (little dragon), Bofu of Sun Ce (mighty supporter), Zhongmou of Sun Quan (talent seeker). Zhuge Liang has a few styles, two of which are "Sleeping Dragon" and "Confucian Wisdom (Kongming)". Confucian Wisdom does not mean he compares himself to Confucius, but he indicates he is a follower of Confucian teachings. » darkknight -- in my book xuan de= yuan-te -- is this the pronunciation or what. zhang=chang as well. zhao zilong=chao tzu-long. phew » Pluvius -- to Darkknight -- I'm pretty sure that that's the Yale system of romanization you're referring to there. This translation (as well as the Koei games) uses the Pinyin system. » Solens -- Nicknames vs Styles -- Nicknames and styles are different. Zhuge Liang as example, is also called Sleeping Dragon and Kong Ming. But Sleeping Dragon is a nickname, while Kong Ming is a like a second name. In pinying, surname is xing, name is ming while style is zi.
31 At this time the family had sunk deep in poverty, and Liu Bei gained his living by selling straw sandals and weaving grass mats. The family home was in a village near the chief city of Zhuo. Near the house stood a huge mulberry tree, and seen from afar its curved profile resembled the canopy of a wagon. Noting the luxuriance of its foliage, a soothsayer had predicted that one day a man of distinction would come forth from the family.	» _Valjean -- Feng Shui -- Hmm, seeing soothsayer as geomancer makes the feng shui reference seem clear to me, if that is what it actually is. » heffalump -- Wait, whats the feng shui reference? » Yunsung -- The curved profile of the tree resembling the canopy of a wagon. -- Also the luxuriance of the leaves.
32 As a child, Liu Bei played with the other village children beneath this tree, and he would climb up into it, saying, "I am the Son of Heaven, and this is my chariot!" His uncle, Liu Yuanqi, recognized that Liu Bei was no ordinary boy and saw to it that the family did not come to actual want.	» IloveNDfootball -- Other Version -- In the non-Mao Zonggong (1522) edition, the Uncle declares "You will bring ruin on our family." » LordSunQuan -- yeah -- why though, why did they think that » IloveNDfootball -- Well -- Well, he's reffering to himself as Emperor. That could get them in trouble with an Imperial Inspector. » XiaoQaio -- Liu Bei -- Why would someone say "I'm the Child of Heaven!"? People would think you're crazy! » Shokyo -- Child of Heaven -- When the Zhou Dynasty was founded, the Mandate of Heaven was written. It may have been by Confucius, I can't remember. Part of it went something along the lines of "The Child of Heaven will lead his people" or something and so the king/emporer/leader/main head person was referred to as the Child of Heaven. » Pang Tong -- Interesting -- How this child who is made not to want is constantly in need later on. Also the Child of Heaven comment is like us saying I am Wolverine today. We know we are not but that does not stop us from pretending » ChaoYun -- Strange children -- what would happen now? "I am the son of heaven! this is my chariot!" "yeah sure you are, get down from the tree will ya?" they must have had some boring children then if thats the definition of unordinary, nowadays all children are doing stuff like that, » Shokyo -- This is a point where we see Liu Bei's ambtion. » DongDal -- Either that or Liu Bei was one of those wise street children! » WuSong -- another translation -- the TS version: "The uncle reproached him 'Don't talk nonsense! You'll ruin our whole family!'" » yuanthedestroyer -- translation -- is Liu's uncle's name right. Cause I'm working on a translation meself, and as far as I can tell qi isn't a character... at least not in the pin-yin dictionary I'm looking at I take it back, i was being stupid
33 When Liu Bei was fifteen, his mother sent him traveling for his education. For a time he served Zheng Xuan and Lu Zhi as masters. And he became great friends with Gongsun Zan.	» GuanPing -- Um does anyone know who Zheng Xuan was? » Mattamatics -- a great scholar
34 Liu Bei was twenty-eight when the outbreak of the Yellow Scarves called for soldiers. The sight of the notice saddened him, and he sighed as he read it.	» Cuardario -- Liu Bei was only one of the relatives of the dynasty. -- He was fair game to about anyone with the surname 'liu'. In my chinese class I learnd that all people with the same last name were once related. » darkknight -- i thought he would be younger than 28 -- maybe i'm used to playing final fantasy where people are young. i guess it's cos i thought people die younger, but chinese medicine was more advanced » Savarius -- Time? -- I know RTK is a massive story, and they wouldn't have time to explain every little detail about each character. However, I would think they would go more in depth about Liu Bei's journey into adulthood, and maybe an experience or two about how he obtained his "virtuous" ideals instead of jumping from age 15 to 28 » MaTseng -- no, -- they can't simply focus on one character or else it would be The Shu-Han story not the three kingdoms, the author had to focus on all the main characters lives and the main events not side stories. » guanping -- Besides I don't think anyone knew that much about him between that time -- Cao Cao they did becuase of his rise through the ranks and so they gave what they knew but there is little to say about Liu Bei "Um he uh wove some matts sold some stuff, lived as a peasant and um uh then the rebellion came." There you go
35 Suddenly a rasping voice behind him cried, "Sir, why sigh if you do nothing to help your country?"	» guanping -- Smart thing to say there... Liu Bei was doing nothing » Pang Tong -- Blunt -- Zhang Fei is the master of being blunt. A good quality because blunt is often synonymous with truth. » zhenluo -- Gotta love Fei -- Though he is supposed to sound way more antagonistic than this. 'Rasping' just makes him sound old...
36 Turning quickly he saw standing there a man about his own height, with a bullet head like a leopard's, large eyes, a swallow pointed chin, and whiskers like a tiger's. He spoke in a loud bass voice and looked as irresistible as a dashing horse. At once Liu Bei saw he was no ordinary man and asked who he was.	» Joe_Long -- Again I can only picture Zhang Fei in Some type of Cartoony form... -- if I take this description literally. » _Praetorianstalker -- Descriptions of characters -- I think this kind of descriptive writing is similar to the way comic book artists draw human anatomy. Superman would not be Superman if he were drawn like a regular person - even when actors portrayed him he did not seem so "super" as he does in the comics. If you are a Dynasty Warriors fan, think how dull that game would be if all of the characters looked basically like the grunt troops that get killed by the thousands. I'm sure the author takes many liberties with descriptions to make the characters seem out of the ordinary... » _Anon -- post -- Actually, if you've ever played DW3, the character of Zhang Fei kind of resembles this description. » _Nemos -- post -- I agree with Anon the description resembles the Zhang Fei of DW3...everyone seems to think that DW3 is the accurate representation of the people in the novel and actual life. » sdhoirm -- Strenths... -- This description is much like Liu Bei's. It just explain the strength, ferocity, and bravery of this Champion. » DarkDragon -- DW3 -- Whilst i dont think thats what they looked like,DW3 does give a decent representation » darkknight -- i've seen a potrait of zhang fei and DW is accurate » jolteony -- portrait of Zhang Fei -- there has been no archeological discovery of any portraits or pictures of Zhang Fei or any other person of DW so u cannot say its accurate » HailGanNing -- jolt is right -- well to a extent, there are said to be many drawings of the warriors of the 3 kingdoms time period, and many descriptions that are about the same, so i would say its actually accurate, remember alot of evidence of the kingdoms were burned (a later chinese dynasty burned alot of books)... » MasterLiang -- Destruction of history. -- That always mad me angry. Tearing down an old house is one thing. But burning libraries and museums is just sick. It always disgusted me how those in power could just intentionally destroy their ancestry as if it meant nothing. » JoeYun -- a nations history is a powerful tool to a rebellious lord -- or a potential revolutionist, it can be used to incite the mob and stir trouble, destroying it ruins the nation's morale and keeps the people in line. Think of it this way, if someone conquered and subjugated america, they would probably pull down the satue of liberty because it's a monument to their freedom that could inspire them. however i do hate to see history being destroyed... » Doozer -- Zheng Fei's Description -- Actually, about two years ago, I was looking for some information on Romance of the Three Kingdoms, because I was really obsessed with Romance of the Three Kingdoms 7 for the Playstation 2, and I stumbled across this website that had pictures of a shrine for Zhang Fei. On a pedistal, there was a ceramic statue of Zhang Fei. And if looked exactly like Koei's representation of him. I don't think I can ever find that picture again, but if you take my word, he looked just like the description of the book, and Koei's drawings. » RyelMiru -- On appearances -- Since there are numerous statues across China representing some heroes of the Three Kingdoms, it's not surprising if Koei was about to get their officer portraits and 3D models to look similar to the real thing. Although I seriously doubt that Zhang He was the vain little claw-monkey DW3 made him out to be, most other officer designs seem feasible. However, when you read about Zhang Fei in the novel, it's almost impossible to picture him any other way than the short, stock, bristly bearded and ferocious man that he was. Somehow, his personality and figure fit so perfectly together, I could never imagine him having a different appearance.
37 "Zhang Fei is my name," replied the stranger. "I live near here where I have a farm; and I am a wine seller and a butcher as well; and I like to become acquainted with worthy people. Your sighs as you read the notice drew me toward you."	» Asprin -- I don't understand how a wine seller could be such a great general. -- Did he have any military training? » Guan Suo -- Zhang Fei -- was a butcher hence he would need strenght, plus this book is Shu biased making him so great, although he is the most underated Shu general » Solace -- I have to agree -- Zhang Fei was definetly underated. He was not the the brainless brute that the ROTK games make him out to be. » Juggalo -- Actually... -- When he first started as a General, he in fact was a brainless brute... only good for battle, mostly because his wine and his bad temper led him to do really stupid things. But as the story goes on, he turns into a great General, and yes he was VERY underated. and he is my fav General » ManicManchu -- Zhang Fei was no man... -- At the time of the rebellion, 184 A.D. Zhang Fei was only 16! How a 16 year old can sell alchol and butcher animals confuses me? » JiaGai -- A person was considered an adult by the age of 15. -- So regardless if he actually was 16 (or older) at the time, he was considered a man at that point. » Pluvius -- Zhang Fei's age -- I don't remember his exact age at this point, but he's a decade younger than his elder brothers Liu Bei and Guan Yu, which would make him a very young man here. I don't think you can use this as an excuse for his early incompetence, however. » dgr81 -- i dont think he needed to do the actual butchering or wine-selling himself... -- it was more like a family-owned business or something. » Pang Tong -- Simple People Can Do Extraordinary things -- Liu Bei is weaver of mats. Zhang Fei is a butcher and Guan Yu is criminal. Their beginnings give them a sense of purpose when they are finally called to action
38 Liu Bei replied, "I am of the Imperial Family, Liu Bei is my name. And I wish I could destroy these Yellow Scarves and restore peace to the land, but alas! I am helpless."
39 "I have the means," said Zhang Fei. "Suppose you and I raised some troops and tried what we could do."	» Heika -- Synergy -- Liu Bei had the drive and determination to succeed, whereas Zhang Fei had the opportunity and the strength to make that possible. The combination was potent indeed.
40 This was happy news for Liu Bei, and the two betook themselves to the village inn to talk over the project. As they were drinking, a huge, tall fellow appeared pushing a hand-cart along the road. At the threshold he halted and entered the inn to rest awhile and he called for wine.	» Aeroteal -- question -- How tall was Guan Yu???? He seems like a Yao Ming. » Super Dian Wei -- He was 6 foot 9 and a half inches. » Shokyo -- height -- Are you sure? That's the same height as my Dad! » Super Dian Wei -- I super-guarun-damn-tee that I'm sure... -- unless that one sight got it wrong... in which case a degrade my super-guarun-damn-tee to a guaruntee. » Juggalo -- yes -- at this time 6 feet was really tall. The height average for humans have always been going up. » JiaGai -- As far as height goes, that's not entirely true. -- In fact, there is skeletal evidence that Romans were as tall as people are today. It's probably that poor living conditions and diets caused the people of the middle ages to be shorter than they are today. » knashshall -- height -- I find it highly unlikely that anyone took a measuring stick to guan yu. Especially considering that US measurement system didn't exist even near to back then.. Don't take the wordings so literal. For example with this passage, just pay attention to the fact that he was taller that the average man. » Seraph -- post -- Along with his long, beautiful beard... lol. Honestly, who wants to e styled "Man of the Beautiful Beard" when you have so many more accomplishments... what about "Man of the phoenix eyes"? That sounds much better. » Shokyo -- Or -- "Big huge gigantic man who we spend most of our time looking up his nose." » Super Dian Wei -- General who Possesses Caterpillar-Like Eyebrows... » Tsailiao -- Guan Yu's height. -- Guan Yu, historically speaking, is said to have been 9 spans tall. Converted to American measurement system, he was about 6'11. » Super Dian Wei -- Wow....i was CLOSE! » mattamatics -- SDW, that was not very confident. :) » MasterCheng -- Cheng Yu -- You think Guan Yu was tall, later in the novel there is a military advisor known as Cheng Yu, and he was said to be nearly 8 feet tall!
41 "And be quick!" added he. "For I am in haste to get into the town and offer myself for the army."	» TomMurch -- Where did the three oath-brothers meet? -- For some reason (I can't remember why) I think the town was called Hedong, but I'm not sure if this is true and I can't find this town on the big map on this site.
42 Liu Bei looked over the newcomer, item by item, and he noted the man had a huge frame, a long beard, a vivid face like an apple, and deep red lips. He had eyes like a phoenix's and fine bushy eyebrows like silkworms. His whole appearance was dignified and awe-inspiring. Presently, Liu Bei crossed over, sat down beside him and asked his name.	» _Shige -- Descriptions -- In stark contrast to the descriptions of his brothers, Guan Yu seems like...well...some big guy with a beard and a red face... » Ragnarok -- Red Face -- I think i'll take my time to explain something here, As a young man Guan killed a ruffian and was on the run, They burned down the house he was in, trying to kill him. His face took a red tinge, which disguised him amongst the flames. That's why Guan Yu statues often have red faces. » Juggalo -- according to Three Kingdoms: A Historical Novel -- Qin Zhengsheng traced Guan Yu's red face to the following Song Dynasty legend. After killing a corrupt magistrate and releasing his victims, Guan Yu took refuge in a Taoist temple. A sorceress had him wash his face in a spring. The water turned his face red, and as a result he could not be identified as the man they were looking for. » DongDal -- Bit odd really -- You would have thought a 6'11 man with a 3 foot beard would have been easy to spot. Red face or not.
43 "I am Guan Yu," replied he. "I am a native of the east side of the river, but I have been a fugitive on the waters for some five years, because I slew a ruffian who, since he was wealthy and powerful, was a bully. I have come to join the army here."	» Zhugefollower -- Guan Yu -- Enter Guan Yu the god of war » WuTugu -- yeah i think he was a god of war -- he was great at all things » ManicManchu -- Chinese religions -- Did you know that Guan Yu is worshiped in China? Seriously. He is. They have small statues of him for sale on Ebay... » darkknight -- I saw Guan Yu in a Chinese recipe book? » guanping -- He was the god of war so yeah they would worship him » WuTugu -- i have a book on lords at home -- it says that the chinese lords of all time was Guan Yu, for his loyalty and so on... » Laguna Cottage -- To darkknight -- Yes, since Guan Yu is the God of Commerce as well, many restaurant owners in Chinatown have Guan Yu statue on the entrance (he brings luck and money!). That's why you see him in a recipe book. I don't think I have seen Guan Yu as the God of War. He is very much worshipped for guardianship. » yingchuan -- there's NO god of "war" in China -- Guan Yu is the god of "wu3". "wu3", a little bit like the spirit of knight, hard to tell the exact meaning in English, basically the bravery, loyalty, righteousness... In Hongkong, Guan Yu is worshipped by both mobdom and police, quite ironical, isn't it? They call him "Guan, the 2nd elder brother", and often swear by his name. In this book, as a fact, he has never been called "Guan Yu". His first name is mentioned only when he was introduced to others. He was usually called "Guan Gong", even nowadays. "Gong1", the duke, or the elder, respectable man, similar to "Zi3", the suffix to one's last name. If one really need to find the god of war, I would recommend Chi You, the opponent of the Yellow Emperor, or Xiang Yu, that of Liu Bang. The latter was always the winner except the last battle, which took everything from his hands. » Seraph -- The word you're looking for is chivalry -- So Guan Yu is the God of Chivalry? Not bad by any means. » Heika -- Guan Yu's Past -- It is a sad state of affairs that Guan Yu was driven to murder due to the fact that an extremely powerful individual was oppressing the people. It is even more saddening to reflect on the fact that, at the time, Guan Yu was held to be accountable. An embodiment of chivalry in action, indeed.
44 Then Liu Bei told Guan Yu his own intentions, and all three went away to Zhang Fei's farm where they could talk over the grand project.
45 Said Zhang Fei, "The peach trees in the orchard behind the house are just in full flower. Tomorrow we will institute a sacrifice there and solemnly declare our intention before Heaven and Earth, and we three will swear brotherhood and unity of aims and sentiments: Thus will we enter upon our great task."	» idgarad -- Poetry In History -- I have noticed in ancient writings that, to indicate the intelligence of a person, to have them speak in a poetic fashion. While it is unlikely that a person would speak like that (it is possible, but again unlikley) having them speak as such implys the level of intelligence. From this I can only determine that for a butcher and wine seller this guy ain't dumb by any mesure. » Michael M. Pettit -- Agreed -- You're correct. Zhang Fei is not dumb. Sure, he's nothing compared to a true advisor, but he's not as dumb as his big hulking muscles might have you think. Though I would still sugest looking out if he ever says that his idea of "brainpower" is "headbutt". » _Uriahman1 -- I didn't know Zhang Fei was the one who came up with the swearing of brotherhood idea. -- What a pleasant surprise. » _praetorianstalker -- post -- Zhang Fei was probably drunk so much from sampling his wine that people thought he was dumb. » _Shige -- Zhang Fei -- All evidence seems to point to Fei being of above-average intelligence, but also possessing of a remarkably foul temper...and of course his reknowned love of drink. Thus his strategy seemed inferior due to his rash, on-the-spot decisions. » Speaker -- Yide -- Yide, or Zhang Fei, was not nearly as idiotic as he appears. In fact, he was quite intelligent. » Super Dian Wei -- The most AWESOME display of Zhang Fei-ism was when he got drunk as a ruse. -- When you can use alcoholism to your advantage, you are a hero to all alcoholics. To further this statement, imagine what Zhang Fei could have done if he didn't have such a love of wine... a sober Zhang Fei would probably be scarier than Lu Bu. » iluvNDfootball -- Brotherhood and Strangers -- I love this scene. But they've known each other for at most a couple of hours. Do you say "Let's swear eternal brotherhood!" to someone you just met? But don't get me wrong, I love this scene. Was the author speeding things up a bit, or is there a difference in the way it seems to me? » darkknight -- i have to agree -- it is strange that they have just met, but i think the author wants us to know how the bro's just click » Shokyo -- Maybe the reason the oath thingy crops up so fast is.... -- because Zhang Fei says he was "drawn" to Liu Bei or something to that extent. They have to be awe-inspiring if you can just look at them and think "Hey! He'd be a cool bro." And I think that's what the author was getting at. » WUuuu -- For Shu everything is very ordained by the heavens -- They very rarely make choices, things are just fated for people... read on and you'll see it happen time and again. » Tiamatty -- Poetry -- This is a translation of a novel based on historical records, along with folklore and a good deal of poetic license. Of course it's going to be poetic, it's how we want our epic stories to sound. High English is used to fancy things up. Who knows? Maybe everyone did speak well. Even today, you come across people who are just really good speakers of their language. It's possible Zhang Fei was a naturally intelligent speaker. As for how quickly they made the oath - why put off until tomorrow...
46 Both Liu Bei and Guan Yu gladly agreed.
47 All three being of one mind, next day they prepared the sacrifices, a black ox, a white horse, and wine for libation. Beneath the smoke of the incense burning on the altar, they bowed their heads and recited this oath:	» Solace -- I find it curious -- how the sacrificing of animals is common amongst many ancient religions from many areas of the world. » Shokyo -- Sacrifice -- A life is a very precious gift for a start, and, to quote Super Dian Wei, it's like a party popper; you pull the string and brightly coloured bits of string fly out the end. So it's not not the party popper itself, but the brightly coloured stringy-thingy inside. With sacrifice, maybe that's what people believe (certainly what the Aztecs believed.) And you don't want to kill a human, so an animal is the next best thing. » WUuuu -- Never liked the idea -- I know its supposedly a gift to the sacredness of life, but it seems far much more like worshipping a mystical death so it doesn't come for you...or atleast thats how I've always felt about it. » Pang Tong -- It was believed -- That the Gods ran off there primal needs at least in other cultures. So the Gods had to eat too. In fact there is a rather humerous take on this in the Promethues myth. you should look it up when you have a chance » TingFeng -- Please note -- Fact: This custom of sacrificing the ox and the horse actually started hundred of years later in the Ming dynasty. Many critics believed the original author (prior to Luo Guanzhong) of the Three Kingdoms made this event up for the sake of drama. However, it stuck and became 'historical' event. » toocold -- Sacrifices -- Sacrifices aren't for the gods well being, theyre to show commitment. In the bible Cain offers grain to god as a sacrifice, but Abel sacrifices his best lamb. God prefers the sacrifice of the lamb. God doesnt need the lamb, he likes the idea that Abel gave up his best stuff for him. I think here is the same thing. An Ox and a Horse are probably fairly valuable at this time. And depending on how much wine, it could have been quite valuable too. They make the sacrifice to symbolize that they mean it. » Doozer -- Sacrifices -- I think that it is fair to say that sacrifices mean different things in different cultures. In some cultures it represents commitment. In others, it's actually offering these items to the god/s. So there is no one definition that is set in stone. As to what the sacrifices meant at this time (unless they did sacrifice anything at all, as TingFeng said), it may be best to leave this decision up to one who's actually versed in the culture of this time.
48 "We three---Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei---though of different families, swear brotherhood, and promise mutual help to one end. We will rescue each other in difficulty; we will aid each other in danger. We swear to serve the state and save the people. We ask not the same day of birth, but we seek to die together. May Heaven, the all-ruling, and Earth, the all-producing, read our hearts. If we turn aside from righteousness or forget kindliness, may Heaven and Human smite us!"	» _Sam B. -- Simple line -- Though born on seperate days, when we die, may it be the same day, at the same moment. » Michael M. Pettit -- Different Version -- In KOEI's Destiny of an Emperor, the oath is "Although we were born on different days, we hope to die in the same hour of the same day of the same year. On our very souls, we pledge that this will be true." Just proves that no matter how you say it, it's still a great oath. » Yuan Shao -- DoaE was made by Koei? I thought it was made by Capcom... » _anonymous -- To Mr Petit, yes, those are the words translated from Chinese. -- The exact noble vow : 'though we may not be born at the same year, the same month and the same day, we hope to die at the same year, the same month, and the same day. May Heaven be our witness ...' I remember when i was a kid, this brings tears ... » _Shadow of Lu Bu -- Destiny of an Emperor -- Yes, Destiny of an Emperor was made by Capcom. » LuMeng -- Same thing -- Dude...whatever you say...It all means the same thing, they all want to swear an oath of brotherhood » ZhangDun -- Then we have Capcom's "Destiny of an Emperor 2" version: -- We three, though born of separate ancestry.. solemnly swear our brotherhood.. and duty to the Han Emperor. May we die on the same day.. Of the same month and the same year.. And suffer the darkest scourge of heaven and earth.. Should we fail!
49 They rose from their knees. The two others bowed before Liu Bei as their elder brother, and Zhang Fei was to be the youngest of the trio. This solemn ceremony performed, they slew other oxen and made a feast to which they invited the villagers. Three hundred joined them, and all feasted and drank deep in the Peach Garden.	» _Solens -- Tree -- There was supposedly a peach tree where they climbed the tree to determine the eldest. Zhang Fei was at the top, Guan Yu was at the trunk and Liu Bei was at the roots. Liu Bei said that he is the eldest as the roots are the oldest, Guan Yu the second as the trunk is the second to grow and Zhang Fei was the youngest as the green leaves are the youngest.
50 The next day weapons were mustered. But there were no horses to ride. This was a real grief. But soon they were cheered by the arrival of two horse dealers with a drove of horses.
51 "Thus does Heaven help us!" said Liu Bei.	» Pang Tong -- Fate -- A running them through out the novel. Heaven is pretty much fate. The two words seem interchangeable in this novel » Heika -- Heaven vs. Fate -- "Fate" in Chinese thought at the time of this novel's writing was the will of Heaven. Liu Bei, in this verse, basically says that the Heavens are directly aiding him and his brothers, instead of it merely being his "fate" to receive the animals.
52 And the three brothers went forth to welcome the merchants. They were Zhang Shiping and Su Shuang from Zhongshan. They went northwards every year to buy horses. They were now on their way home because of the Yellow Scarves. The brothers invited them to the farm, where wine was served before them. Then Liu Bei told them of the plan to strive for tranquillity. Zhang Shiping and Su Shuang were glad and at once gave the brothers fifty good steeds, and beside, five hundred ounces of gold and silver and one thousand five hundred pounds of steel fit for the forging of weapons.	» theonlyone -- Money -- Jeez, u would think how could a wine seller, a poor man, and a tall runaway, could raise an army. Did it mention anywhere that either one had a fortune hidden somewhere? » JiaGai -- Resources -- Well, they DIDN'T have the money. The weapons they probably scrounged up from all over by begging or convincing people to help or blowing whatever money they DID have. They didn't even have horses until someone gave them some. And now they're recieving more charity from other people. Liu Bei, Zhang Fei and Guan Yu are pretty much penniless and wouldn't have been able to raise and field an army if it wasn't for outside generosity. » drunkmastrZhangFei -- Plus.... -- Plus Liu Bei is proclaiming he can restore the Han, which all the shop keepers would benifit GREATLY from this in buisness, so why not sacrifice a bit of wares just to help him for little or no money. » Shokyo -- money -- I think they just bartered. » drunkmastrZhangFei -- Bartered -- I think so but I have a slight buz right now and might be mistaken, and yes thats another option all in it's own, Liu Bei and his brothers might have even did the shop keepers a favor. » Rahonavis -- Who's got money? -- Actually Zhang Fei was by far the more wealthy of the three. He was both a butcher and a brewer. Bartered helped to increase what little resources they had, but in troubled times they were also a fresh inspiration to people and villagers around them. Many would come forth because chaotic times gives birth to uncommon heros. » Pluvius -- Don't forget -- The fact that Liu Bei was a highly charismatic man probably helped a lot too. » MasterLiang -- Liu Beis charisma -- Maybe his long ears and mat weaving talents made him sexy? » Miliardo -- "I'm dead sexy!" -- Yes, I'm sure his bulging eyes, overtly long arms, and ghostly complexion make him really huggable. » HotBread -- Sexy -- Sexual appeal did not really matter for men in ancient China. Men did not have to impress women in order to get some. They just had to be either wealthy, noble, or well-educated so they could get a nice family arranged bride. Traits of good fortune, even if they are ugly, were more desirable. The long ear lobes were symbols longevity, his white skin and red lips symoblized that Liu Bei was a well read and educated men. Im not sure what the long arms and big eyes meant tho.
53 The brothers expressed their gratitude, and the merchants took their leave. Then blacksmiths were summoned to forge weapons. For Liu Bei they made a pair of ancient swords; for Guan Yu they fashioned a long-handled, curve blade called Green-Dragon Saber, which weighed a full one hundred pounds; and for Zhang Fei they created a ten-foot spear called Serpent Halberd. Each too had a helmet and full armor.	» Explainer -- Units in this book -- All ancient Chinese units in this book are converted to modern units such as pounds, miles, thousands, etc. for easy understanding. (I know, it would be better if we use the world's metric system like kg and km; but to keep some mysterious value, we choose the old English system, which I believe is used only in the US and a few other countries.) In this case, the original text says Guan Yu's weapon weighs 82 jin, and one jin is about 20 ounces. Therefore, the weapson is about 1,600 ounces or 100 pounds or 45 kg. » _foible -- Liu Bei's weapons -- Liu Bei has a pair of matching swords. But how the blacksmiths forge ancient swords is beyond me... » Seraph -- Liu Bei's swords -- what does it mean when they say ancient? They obviously can't forge a sword that is "ancient" in terms of age, so would it be ancient in terms of design? And if that's true, then how would it be different? » _ebeten -- LiuBei's swords -- When they say that a blacksmith forged ancient weapons, they more than likely mean it was more of an ancient design, rather than the sword's being ancient themselves. » PiGeXianSheng -- Regarding "ancient" and blades -- My interpretation, of "ancient" being "Containing the spirit of a life before." Usage of the word "ancient" speaks to the concept of "built-in", "broken-in", or past experience of a soldier, as well as particularly his tools, as being essential to the success of a military campaign. Conceivably, the practical value of the blade would be proportional to the number of warriors it has assailed mortally during its lifetime. Without "experience," a blade has no assessable value; it is unknown how effective the weapon truly is. Here, the storyteller is artificially imbuing the weapon with "previous experience" in order to "ennoble" or "envalue" it. Most warriors probably created allegories around their weaponry. In the heat of battle it would be psychologically great to feel as though you are not alone--that there exist spirits of past warriors who have chosen to use "this particular" blade who are there to share their experience with you so as you may learn to avoid the gruesome end that they had eventually come to experience while using it. Imagine during battle, legions of past soldiers educating and guiding you as to the best means to exploit your particular weapon's myriad overt as well as hidden idiosyncrasies as you impale, butcher, bludgeon, and maim with the accuracy of a surgeon. Imagine all of this experience conferred to you in a download like Keanu Reeves in the Matrix. Yes, "ancient" is about the blade containing a wisdom of its own that it confers to the owner. As an aside, ask yourself, "Why would you buy stone washed jeans sold as new in the urban department store?" There are many answers to this question and complicated motivations to be sure. But generally consider that the motivations have something to do with the exploitation of the concept of "past." For example, contrary to cursory inspection, urban environments are very lonely places. When you put on these jeans you feel as though you are never alone as in 'someone wore them before you did.' But a more convincing reason exists; you seek to use the past as a shield. When you are in an urban setting, you don't want to appear too refined--someone will think you are a "green," or new to the environment, and attempt to waylay you. "Ancient" implies "protection." » _Pizzlet -- Weapon Name -- I thought Guan Yu's weapon was called Blue Dragon » _chaule -- Weapon Name -- Pizzlet, the name is correct. Guan Yu's weapon actually is Green Dragon. » Na Wu Tang -- Green/Blue -- In Koei games like Dynasty Warriors 3, Guan Yu's weapon is called Blue Dragon. They have a habit of messing these things up like Sun Rens name. » _kurt -- weapon name -- actually, koei did not mess up the weapon name. green and blue were both the same color and represented by the same chinese character until only about 50 years ago. even today japanese people still say grass and traffic lights are blue. the name of guan yu's weapon uses this ambiguous character. » _Sam B. -- Weapons -- I thought Liu Bei had only one sword. Lu Xun had the two swords. I guess playing the game kinda makes your view limited when it involves weapons. » _Mr.Porky -- Liu Bei's Sword -- I don't remember where I seen this, but I remember from somewhere that Liu Bei's sword can split in to two. Like some of the chinese weapons where 2 blade is combine in to 1 sword, but can be split at will to become twin sabres. » _panda -- Liu Bei uses a pair of swords, as per Chinese text » GuanYu7 -- GuanYu's blade -- GuanYu's blade was actually known as the Black Dragon! » _Doug Bu -- I thought guan yu's weapon was called tha blue moon dragon » _Dragoon_0 -- post -- In one book I read, it was also called the 'Cold Beauty' and 'Black Dragon', but that had names like Kuan Yu, Liu Pei, ect. » watermelon -- Guan Yu's weapon -- If you want the exact word to word translation, Guan Yu's weapon is called "Bluish-green Half-moon Blade". By the way, I'm Chinese. » _anonymous -- Yes watermelon, its Qing Long Ban Yue Dao ... ~_~ » _Peter -- Weapons -- Name - Weapon In English - Weapons in Chinese Pinyin Liu Bei - Twin Swords - Shuang Jian Guan Yu - Blue-Dragon Half-moon Blade - Qinglong Yanyue Dao Zhang Fei - Snake Spear - She Mao FYI » Toastah -- I think the Dynasty Warriors game really helps you visualize what's happening » _anonymous -- post -- I'm Chinese and I read that Kuan Yu means Wide Cloud and that he had several different names he went by (as per the Chinese novel original one)and yes, it is Qinglong Banyue Dao. And Cold Beauty is given by I think Cao Cao when Kuan Yu was under his command. I have never heard Black Dragon though. In Chinese, Liu Bei has two swords and Zhang Fei has Sheh Mao. Mao is spear like Chang Mao and Sheh is Snake. » dgr81 -- colour of guan yu's blade -- the chinese term used was 'qing' which in ancient times could mean either black or blue (in present age, 'qing' means green). however i personally think it more likely to be blue because there was a seperate word for black ie 'zao'. plus there is a phrase in chinese 'qing hong zao bai', where 'hong' is red, 'zao' black and 'bai' red, thus 'qing' must be blue. » _anonymous -- weight -- Umm, this may be answered somewhere else on this site, but, when the text says 'pounds' does it mean English pounds, or is it just a translation for some old Chinese unit of weight. And as a side note, how much does, say, the average sword weigh? Just wondering exactly how impressive Guan Yu's weapon was. :) » Raiko -- Guan Yu's Weapon name -- The name of Guan Yu's weapon is the Bluish-Green Cresant-Moon Blade, and I am Chinese. » ManicManchu -- about Guan Yu's weapon -- where do you think they get the colors of in naming a weapon? think about it. It depends on what material is used to make his weapon. for example, if it is made out of steel, it may give a greenish glow when light reflects off of it. or if it's iron, it may give a blueish glow... meh. who knows » ZhugesMan -- Guan Yus Weapon -- i thought it was Black Dragon » JiaGai -- One possibility. -- There are four sacred beasts (or gods, whichever you wish to call them) of Chinese (and Japanese) mythology consisting of the Blue/Green Dragon, White Tiger, Red Phoenix and Black Tortoise. It's quite possible Guan Yu's weapon was named after this dragon of this quartet. » TingFeng -- May I suggest Aquamarine? » Miliardo -- Guan Yu's Wapon (hopefully for the last time) -- So... Guan Yu's weapon of choice, Qinglong Yanyue Dao, is the Blue Dragon Crescent Moon Blade, a halberd-ish weapon weighing in at about 100 lbs. It was called different names by different people, for instance Cold Beauty by Cao Cao. Black Dragon is a name given the weapon by the fact that the word "Qing" means black as well as blue (and I don't think qing qing means black-and-blue). Qing, in recent times, i.e. when this book was translated into English for this version, has come to mean green as well. However, this "green" may in fact mean young, since qing is also translated as someone who is young, youthful, or lacking in experience. Qing also means bronze, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be any one of these colors. The idea of different metals creating different colors is valid, though I think that the blade was of a primarily blueish tinge, as Cao Cao called it "COLD Beauty" (obvious emphasis on the word cold). Ice, water, and people who have died of hypothermia are always characterized by their chilliness and related blueness. So, in short, I say it was the Blue Dragon. Besides, it is said that a black serpent "coiled itself up on the very seat of majesty", an attack on the Emperor of the Han if I've ever seen one (though I really haven't). I wouldn't think that someone wanting to restore the Han would carry a symbol of its destruction. So there. » TomMurch -- Forging Weapons -- Wouldn't it take days to forge weapons and armour? How long did the brothers spend in this town? » DongDal -- Is it an anniversary? -- Only I've noticed a lot of people who haven't shown up in a while, have started posting again. » TomMurch -- Correct, mortal: -- this day marks the 666th year since Lord Drak von Evil was slain by the forces of good...and now, I have returned! BOO! (puts on serious face) None of that is true. Sorry. And I'm not sure how many people have been away, because I've been away. University is harder than I expected, so ROTK notes have been put on hold. And I'm still only on Chapter 15...will I ever finish this book? » DongDal -- Oh you will. -- It took me about two goes before I could finish it. » Tiamatty -- I'm on my second try -- Made it to chapter 51 now. Weee. So I probably shouldn't really be posting my ideas on a book I haven't read all the way through once yet, but hey, I'm good at faking I know what I'm talking about.
54 When weapons were ready, the troop, now five hundred strong, marched to Commander Zhou Jing, who presented them to Imperial Protector Liu Yan. When the ceremony of introduction was over, Liu Bei declared his ancestry, and Liu Yan at once accorded him the esteem due to a relation.	» TomMurch -- Arms and Armour -- What would the armies of the time be armed with? I guess that swords, short bows and spears would be as standard, but would they have axes? Halberds? Pikes? The DW games have crossbowmen, but I find that hard to believe, considering how long it took to reach Europe - we're always on the look-out for new ways to kill other Europeans. Also, how would they be armoured? With such large armies, would generals even bother giving their troops armour? Maybe just helmets? Or breastplates and shields? What kind of shields (large, full body oblongs or small round ones)? I've just been studying the Romans at Uinversity, and was wondering how the armies of China compared to those of Europe. » guanping -- swords only for court -- dagger and a form of halbered. Some had shields, a few had spears. Bowmen had bows. Very little would have that much armour » TomMurch -- Arms and Armour 2 -- how about siege weaponry - catapults/trebuchets, ballistas, siege towers and archer platforms, battering rams (the ones that are swung on ropes on a wooden frame, not carried by soldiers) and such like? Again, DW has portrayed several engines of warfare, but they aren't quite 100% accurate... » guanping -- catapults used against Yuan Shao but they are minor things -- archer platforms where used but don't think the rest where used » Yunsung -- The Chinese had ballistae. Siege towers, dunno. Archer platforms, yes. -- I'm not sure about the rams; but its highly likely. » Tiamatty -- Weapons -- Crossbows existed in China and were widely used in the 200s BCE. Zhuge Liang is often credited as having invented the repeating crossbow - less powerful and less accurate, but much easier to get a shot off. He also invented the landmine. » guanping -- the landmine?
55 Before many days it was announced that the rebellion had actually broken out, and a Yellow Scarves chieftain, Cheng Yuanzhi, had invaded the region with a body of fifty thousand rebels. Liu Yan bade Zhou Jing and the three brothers to go out to oppose them with the five hundred troops. Liu Bei joyfully undertook to lead the van and marched to the foot of the Daxing Hills where they saw the rebels. The rebels wore their hair flying about their shoulders, and their foreheads were bound with yellow scarves.	» _ZhouYu -- post -- When the yellow scarves were mentioned, there were some posts about how they were worn, this says around their foreheads, bandannas or turbans? » _ShinZhaoYun -- I thought they were called the yellow turbans. » Gan Ning -- both -- It can actually be both but most people call them Yellow Turbans because Turbans is what you think of when its around the top part of the head. Bandannas usually refer the cloth worn around the mouth or neck. Scarves you wear around the neck....duh. At least that i think. » Destrado -- 500 sent against 50, 000? Is there something about this that I'm missing? » _Shige -- good odds -- yeah - what you're missing is that it was 50,000 vs. 500 + Liu Bei / Guan Yu / Zhang Fei....the Turbans never stood a chance ;O) » _Deruki -- post -- Think of it as 500 organized men, vs 50,000 disorganized adolescents without a solid leader or strategy. » _Kev -- more like this -- Liu Bei, Zhang Fei, and Guan Yu were the vanguard, so I would assume the 500 troops were only part of the front lines and they had support troops not too far away. » knashshall -- about the 500 -- The text explains that the brothers gathered 500 men to fight from their home town, and that Liu was the leader. So when ordered to fight the rebellion they joined with another unprepared unit i'm sure. Much like in RTK when you assign troops to a general. » IloveNDfootball -- Okay -- Imagine a 50,000 villagers who picked up some guns marching on a city. Now imagine five hundred US Rangers coming to stop them. » rangatang -- numbers -- it doesnt matter how good the 500 side is or the situation against a force that big they cant hope to win the numbers are too great » ChaoYun -- Well not necessarily... -- Remember reading that during an uprising back when the romans where in posession of england, the romans had a force of 10,000, maybe less, and the managed to defeat the celtic army of 100,000, all down to pure organisation. Also, didn't the main generals duel anyway instead of letting the armies do battle? surely the numbers wouldn't have mattered that much, once your leader is gone, and you're faced with GuanYu and ZhangFei, you're pretty much demoralised and it's no surprise most of them ran wasn't it? » MasterLiang -- Sun Tzu would disagree rangtang -- "Advantage in Numbers alone is no advantage at all" When the Romans defeated Boudiccia and the Iceni in Britain, it was 8,000 to 100,000. The 8,000 roman stood in ordered formation, shield to shield. The 100,000 brits charge around like it was a soccer riot. End result? Something like 80,000 Iceni killed, the rest sold into slavery or scattered to the winds. 500 well trained, well fed, well disicplined men on horseback will beat 50,000 rioting peasants armed with farm tools and sticks 99/100. » ZhugesMan -- Yellow Turbans -- How did they manage to raise so many men » JiaGai -- It just takes the right circumstances. -- When you have a disaffected population, tired of abuse and neglect, it just takes a charismatic individual with a message everyone wants to hear to incite people to join the cause. Think Nazi Germany. Following their surrender at the end of WWI, Germany had been languishing economically and had fallen into a severe depression. The people were suffering and the nation was deteriorating. Enter the Nazi party and some guy named Adolf Hitler. He had the presence to attract attention to himself and he had a message everyone wanted to hear: that the Germans were the chosen people and that they deserved to become THE world power. After all those years of torment, the Germans were quite ready and eager to listen and thus, history was changed. » TingFeng -- Another distortion -- History was written by the winners never rang truer. The historical Yellow turbans were not really such villains the novel portrayed. They were farmers tortured by corrupted Han court. They gained supporters by feeding them. They became role model of many heroes to follow. Then the Three Kingdoms was published and they became the axis of evil. » DustAndShadow -- Many of the worlds most terrible armies -- were not formed on the promise of wealth or power, but on the promise of bread. » ChaosKnight -- The yellow turbans -- I read that in historical fact that the turbans believed that they were under the protection of god and that they were invulnerable and didn't need weapons. With that in mind, 500 fully armed men versus 50,000 crazys who believe they can't be killed and don't use weapons don't seem like that big of a disadvantage. » Yunsung -- Sounds like the Boxer Rebellion to me, buddy. -- The Boxers believed that, once they reached a sufficient plain of Enlightenment, a spirit would enter their bodies, rendering them invulnerable to all forms of weapons. Unfortunately for the Boxers, it didn't work. Besides, where did you get the idea that the Turbans didn't use weapons? Even the Boxers, who really did have the aforementioned belief, carried weapons. » ChaosKnight -- I have read from sites that talk about the actual historical events. -- Many, not all, but many of the Yellow Turbans believed that due to their rebellion being just and following the will of god that they had no need for weapons, because god would protect them and strike down their enemies somthin like that. » Tiamatty -- Odds and Weapons -- What makes you think Liu Bei's forces were well-trained? From what I read, they seemed to be mostly just volunteers who wanted to save the Han, much like Liu bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei themselves. While some may have had formal training, it seems more likely they were just regular people with a lot to lose. I find it doubtful that the Yellow Turbans wouldn't have used weapons. Perhaps they believed the gods would protect them, but they still would've needed a way to defeat their enemies. It's like the old joke about a guy asking God to help him win the lottery, and God telling him to go buy a ticket. » ZhaoZilongfan -- At this time, the Yellow Turbans (or Scarves) had already defeated the Imperial Army. -- There was much chaos, and this happened a few months after 3 simultaneous rebellions were put down (Rebels in Liang Province led by Han Sui, brought down by Dong Zhuo; Rebels in Bei Ping downed by Gongsun Zan; Rebels in Lower Jing (Ling Ling, Chang Sha, Gui Yang region) downed by Sun Jian). Anyway, the Turbans took most of the Eastern provinces in the central plains such as: Runan, Xu Province, Pu Yang, Nan Pi, Ye, etc.. The Han was in a tight spot...
56 When the two armies had been drawn up opposite each other, Liu Bei rode to the front, Guan Yu to his left, Zhang Fei to his right.
57 Flourishing his whip, Liu Bei began to hurl reproaches at the rebels, crying, "O malcontents! Why not dismount and be bound?"
58 Their leader Cheng Yuanzhi, full of rage, sent out one general, Deng Mao, to begin the battle. At once rode forward Zhang Fei, his serpent halberd poised to strike. One thrust and Deng Mao rolled off his horse, pierced through the heart. At this Cheng Yuanzhi himself whipped up his steed and rode forth with sword raised ready to slay Zhang Fei. But Guan Yu swung up his ponderous green-dragon saber and rode at Cheng Yuanzhi. At the sight, fear seized upon Cheng Yuanzhi, and before he could defend himself, the great saber fell, cutting him in halves.	» _Nu Wa -- post -- Was Deng Mao not sent for a formal parlay and discuss terms of war with the generals of the Imperial army? Is Zhang Fei not dishonorable to slay the negotiator? » _Nu Wa -- post -- Surely they would not send their officers and generals to the front line to attack by themselves without a force? » MisterBiohazard -- Maybe for the bragging rights and morale boost of your general kicking the other general's arse? » idgarad -- To Nu Was Parlay -- As far as I understand, if under the circumstances of the rebellion, the rights and duties of war would not be extended, the rebels are not an opposing army, they would have classed them as bandits. » _Sam B. -- I don't think that was the negotiator. » Chichiri -- post -- I doubt highly that the rebels were considered an army but even if they were considered as such they werent organized as we would expect an army to be these days, nor were any other armies. Generals were sent ahead to attack the enemy, and their success was often what caused their troops to follow up with the attack. The "armies" for both sides are mostly poorly equiped peasants who know nothing about war and can only be encouraged to fight if their leaders show the ability to win the battle, without a leader they simply get scared and run away as the paragraphs state. » _Sun Ce -- Duel -- i visualize the paragraph as ... Deng Mao challenges the opposing general for a duel and Zhang Fei accepts it. » _anonymous -- post -- The enemy commanders fought first alone in a duel much like in the Trojan War and other wars because it encouraged their troops to fight. The peasants probably did not care that much which side they were on as long as they won and they received fair treatment and got what they wanted out of the war. » edwardfu -- Dueling -- Traditionally the commanders have two generals duel. The loser loses a good general and the morale of his troops. Nowadays, it's obviously impossible. » Rahonavis -- Dueling: Commanders and generals always lead by example. -- To duel among generals is a right and honorable thing to do. To do battle by single combat also proves to one's own troops, one is willing, capable, honorable and a big morale booster should one win. Of course challenges are NOT always met but that is because the use of tactics comes largely into play. » CrazyDreamer -- East vs. West -- Some Western readers may be influenced in their commentary by what they know of the duelling of European feudal leaders in battle. In those cases, the killing of a noble would cause a great many troops to leave the battle because their oaths only bound them to their immediate superior. No lord, no requirement to hang around in a lethal environment. In the case of the Chinese generals at this particular incident, the troops following them were more not locked into the same feudal structure; none of the commanders were nobles per se. The troops were inexperienced and unskilled, so the generals were forced to battle in order to inspire courage. ("My general can beat up your general, so nyah!")
59 Two heroes new to war's alarms, Ride boldly forth to try their arms. Their doughty deeds three kingdoms tell, And poets sing how these befell.	» Solace -- I'm wondering if anyone knows who added the poetry to the book -- I mean it rhymes in english so I don't think Luo Guanzhong wrote it. So who did? » JiaGai -- Poetry -- Someone translated the original poetry to English. I'm assuming it was C.H. Brewitt-Taylor. Musta taken a lot of time and imagination to both translate it and rewrite it in a way that retains the original meaning yet is still recognizable as poetry. It's the same as today, people translate asian songs (most notably J-pop), and have to struggle with fully literal translations or more artistically pleasing translations. » Solace -- Kudos to the translator then! » heffalump -- Yes, indeed. Very good work to that guy. » Evidence -- Impressive. » Taystin -- Translation -- Makes you wonder if it actually is the original translation though doesn't it? The translator could pretty much write anything he wanted to and if you can't speak ancient Chinese then chances are you have to take it at face value. Instead of the wonderful poetry it could have been the recipe for won-ton soup for all we know. » DongDal -- But why would that be in this book? -- Unless Koei were closer to Xu Chu than we thought?
60 Their leader fallen, the rebels threw away their weapons and fled. The official soldiers dashed in among them. Many thousands surrendered and the victory was complete. Thus this part of the rebellion was broken up.	» idgarad -- Economical Benefit -- The fact that they threw their weapons down was a sign of surrender and a benefit to the army of Lui Bei, free weapons are a good thing. » _Xu Huang -- Question -- So the entire battle was over with just two casulties? » Explainer -- The winners can kill the losers now -- They may not want to do it if they desire a simple victory and submission. But when the hatred runs high, they would slay until the field or the river turns red! That's why the losers throw away their weapons and armors and flee: They can run faster and hide in the populace. » IloveNDfootball -- Imagine -- Imagine a bunch of teens with a brave man. Now imagine that the brave man is killed with ease by an enemy. Now the others charge and they scatter » Pluvius -- Free weapons -- Considering the fact that these were barely-organized rebels, I doubt that their weapons would be much worth having anyway (I'm imagining pitchforks and hoes being the weapons of choice). » guanping -- I believe most farmers would have some good weapons, they had to defend their land -- so I think there would have been a nice lot of weapons for the armies to collect. » Yunsung -- Not really... -- Weapons cost money, and money was something that most farmers did not have much of. Pluvius is most likely right. However, any weapon is better than no weapon. » JiaGai -- Honestly, I just can't see peasants, in general, being terribly well armed. -- A few might have some heirloom swords passed down from a more affluent branch of the family and some might have gotten their hands on spears. However, for the most part, the only weapons they'd probably have are farming implements (the majority just can't afford anything better) or maybe a hunting bow. While they're functional as makeshift weapons, they aren't really meant for warfare. » TomMurch -- A few casualties that you aren't expecting can be scarier than 1000 that you anticipated. -- Hitler tried to overthrow Germany in 1924 with a group of dedicated Nazis, but 14 casualties was all it took to end his 'revolution'. Also, the farmers would probably have had a few real weapons and lots of scythes, axes and pointy things. I hereby promote JiaGai to General of All Farmers Ever for his wisdom in such matters. » Tiamatty -- Weapons -- Some of them may have been given weapons when they joined the revolution. Others may have used weapons passed down through generations. Others may have bought them with what little money they'd managed to save. The rest would have just used makshift weapons.
61 On their return, Liu Yan personally met them and distributed rewards. But the next day, letters came from Imperial Protector Gong Jing of Qingzhou Region saying that the rebels were laying siege to the chief city and it was near falling. Help was needed quickly.
62 "I will go," said Liu Bei as soon as he heard the news.
63 And he set out at once with his own soldiers, reinforced by a body of five thousand under Zhou Jing. The rebels, seeing help coming, at once attacked most fiercely. The relieving force being comparatively small could not prevail and retired some ten miles, where they made a camp.
64 "They are many and we but few," said Liu Bei to his brothers. "We can only beat them by superior strategy."
65 So they prepared an ambush. Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, each with a goodly party, went behind the hills, right and left, and there hid. When the gongs beat they were to move out to support the main army.
66 These preparations made, the drums rolled noisily for Liu Bei to advance. The rebels also came forward. But Liu Bei suddenly retired. Thinking this was their chance, the rebels pressed forward and were led over the hills. Then suddenly the gongs sounded for the ambush. Guan Yu and Zhang Fei poured out from right and left as Liu Bei faced around to meet the rebels. Under three-side attack, the rebels lost heavily and fled to the walls of Qingzhou City. But Imperial Protector Gong Jing led out an armed body to attack them, and the rebels were entirely defeated and many slain. Qingzhou was no longer in danger.	» idgarad -- Too Good To Be True -- At this point Liu Bei implements what Sun Tzu refers to as creating Deadly Ground (or in some translations Killing Ground). This tactic is mantioned no less than 12 times in Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" » _anonymous -- post -- Really? I had been studying Sun Zi Bin Fa for years, and ... that isnt exactly the deadly ground ... It is just a feint to draw the enemy to an ambush ... » knashshall -- ambush -- I would consider setting up an ambush to be equivalent to creating deadly or killing ground. That is the meaning that sun tzu is getting at. Forcing the enemy to fight on unfavorable ground or tricking them into doing so, thus creating deadly ground. » Rahonavis -- Ambush or Kill Zone -- The modern military equivalent is the "Kill Zone" An area setup thru the use of superior tactics in an ambush situation causing the opposing force to enter into an area designated and under unfavorable conditions trapped and killed. » Yorak -- Encircled Ground -- This isn't Death Ground. Death Ground is where an army has no choice but to fight or die. YOU want to be on Death Ground; you do NOT want your enemy there. The reason is that an army on Death Ground is fighting for its very survival, and will fight much harder and more desperately than an army that has retreat as an option. The typical example of Death Ground is when an army has a river to its back and the enemy to its front; the army -has- to defeat its enemy, or they'll drown. Had Liu Bei surrounded the Yellow Turbans completely, then he would have placed them on Death Ground, and he probably would have come out the worse for it. What Liu Bei is creating here is Encircled Ground. Encircled Ground is where one side can attack from many directions while the other side can only attack from a few. » TomMurch -- Encircled Ground sounds much better. -- It gives the enemy a way to run, rather than forcing them to fight like cornered tigers. They survive, of course, but you can still loot the battlefield and take prisoners. » Yunsung -- Deadly Ground is a double-edged sword. -- Although you can use it against your OWN troops to escape a desperate situation, it often leads to huge casualties unless you can fortify your position or already occupy such a position. Once fortified, your soldiers will slowly lose morale unless you can find a weak point in their camp or formation and escape. As you can see, being surrounded is never a good proposition. It isn't even good against your enemies, unless your numbers are superior. The best elementary tactic that a mostly untrained commander like Liu Bei could use would be a penetration of the enemy line and disruption of their forces. If you can keep your own troops together, you can penetrate the entire enemy formation and seperate the enemy. There is a much larger chance of surrender or retreat if the enemy is seperated. » TomMurch -- Er...just what I was about to say. -- A pet peeve of mine is when idiots (Time Commanders contestants, for example) consider a pincer movement to be the greatest tactic ever. Anyway, using Deadly Ground on your own army sounds insane. Any examples of it actually working? » Shokyo -- Probably not. You'd need an army at least ten times the size of your enemy's to even consider it. » TomMurch -- And with that kind of advantage, you wouldn't need such a complex tactic. -- Just a big man to stand up and shout "CHARGE!" » Yunsung -- Augustus put his troops on deadly ground at the Battle of Memphis, and destroyed Antony's... -- flanking force, which allowed him to escape. » TomMurch -- Hardly a great victory though. -- "I have destroyed Antony's flanking force - quick, lads, scarper!" I suppose he was outnumbered heavily to even think of using such a tactic. » Yunsung -- I was hoping that I wouldn't have to explain it... -- Antony's main force of 6000 was advancing toward Memphis, where Augustus was camped. Antony's flanking force was advancing toward the city, with about 2000 infantry. Augustus's army of 5000 came out of the city, and marched toward the hills. They were soon trapped by Antony's flanking force, and encirled. Augustus told his men to... "Stand or die, brothers of Caesar!". They were emboldened, and penetrated the flanking force, which allowed them to escape into the hills.
67 Though fierce as tigers soldiers be, Battles are won by strategy. A hero comes; he gains renown, Already destined for a crown.	» lord_alden -- A Dedication -- -- . As stars show beauty that shines to the sky, also is the dragon, thusly fated to die. Thought noble of birth and honor of cause, the brothers three were fated to die without their oathed clause. -Dedicated to The Three Brothers, Liu Bei, Zhang Fei, and Guan Yu. May all three rest in peace to this day, and respect be granted to their stalwart souls. Their deeds have impacted many a people and moved many a heart, and I composed this parlous poem in my deep respect for them. » Solace -- very nice Lord Alden! -- It's good to see someone in the modern day taking a poetic interest in the story and its characters. » Shokyo -- hmph -- How can everyone can write good poetry except for me? *sulk!* Also agreeing with Solace... VERY pretty ^-^ » guanping -- very nice poem Alden » lordhuangzhong -- incredible poem alden -- i cant write for beans » ChaosKnight -- nice -- good contribution you should try to become a poet for a side job. » DongDal -- I like it -- Very true as well. » ChangshanTiger -- A dedication of my own -- . The rebels draw near And the Han quakes in fear The Governors hide Flee in spite of pride Behind their tails Three brothers do not quail United by oath & dream The foul Han they do redeem Serpent & Dragon blades Smite the foe in raids As two warriors great Do dare strike at fate Their elder brother stands Two long blades in his hands He leads his troops to fame And for Hans restoration doth aim Their ambition burns bright And for it they shall fight Liu Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei Fought for Shu-Han till dying day
68 After the celebrations in honor of victory were over, Commander Zhou Jing proposed to return to Youzhou.
69 But Liu Bei said, "We are informed that Imperial Commander Lu Zhi has been struggling with a horde of rebels led by Zhang Jue at Guangzong. Lu Zhi was once my teacher, and I want to go help him."	» Heika -- An Extension of Filial Piety -- Liu Bei was indebted to Lu Zhi, as the latter was his teacher, and it was Liu Bei's moral duty to go to his aid. Anything less would have been unrighteous.
70 So Liu Bei and Zhou Jing separated, and the three brothers with their troops made their way to Guangzong. They found Lu Zhi's camp, were admitted to his presence, and declared the reason of their coming. The Commander received them with great joy, and they remained with him while he made his plans.
71 At that time Zhang Jue's one hundred fifty thousand troops and Lu Zhi's fifty thousand troops were facing each other. Neither had had any success.
72 Lu Zhi said to Liu Bei, "I am able to surround these rebels here. But the other two brothers, Zhang Ba and Zhang Lian, are strongly entrenched opposite Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun at Yingchuan. I will give you a thousand more troops, and with these you can go to find out what is happening, and we can then settle the moment for concerted attack."
73 So Liu Bei set off and marched as quickly as possible to Yingchuan. At that time the imperial troops were attacking with success, and the rebels had retired upon Changshe. They had encamped among the thick grass.	» heffalump -- What amateurs. » guanping -- well um they were -- the leaders probably had no milatry experience whatsoever. Even professional soldiers actually do that mistake, so what chance have normal country bumpkins? » Seraph -- remember this is a rebellion of the common people. -- That means it is not brilliant commanders in charge of veterans. It is people with at least a little military mind in charge of a hoard of lower class farmers that are uneducated and undisciplined. It is a wonder they could even form a coherent army. » cFodder -- Reality is never ideal... -- Sometimes there simply isn't a 'good' spot to camp. Poor knowledge of the terrain and bad weather - any change in cirumstances from the expected - can stall an army in a vulnerable position like this. Once it happens your choices are to camp there for the night, or continue moving (and 'continue moving' only works for extremely well disciplined troops or particularly terrifying commanders). Most of the men commanding the rebels would have had education on how military affairs were conducted - perhaps not well trained, and not up on all the tricks but they would know the ABC's of combat. No one CHOOSES to encamp in such an area - circumstance forces it upon them. It is amateurish, yes, but it's not as easy as simply knowing that tall grass is a poor place to encamp. Their commander is most likely aware of this, but simply couldn't avoid it.
74 Seeing this, Huangfu Song said to Zhu Jun, "The rebels are camping in the field. We can attack them by fire."
75 So the Imperial Commanders bade every man cut a bundle of dry grass and laid an ambush. That night the wind blew a gale, and at the second watch they started a blaze. At the same time Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun's troops attacked the rebels and set their camp on fire. The flames rose to the very heaven. The rebels were thrown into great confusion. There was no time to saddle horses or don armor: They fled in all directions.
76 The battle continued until dawn. Zhang Lian and Zhang Ba, with a group of flying rebels, found a way of escape. But suddenly a troop of soldiers with crimson banners appeared to oppose them. Their leader was a man of medium stature with small eyes and a long beard. He was Cao Cao, a Beijuo man, holding the rank of Cavalry Commander. His father was Cao Song, but he was not really a Cao. Cao Song had been born to the Xiahou family, but he had been brought up by Eunuch Cao Teng and had taken this family name.	» _Reader -- Yellow Scarves Names -- Isn't Zhang Lian suppossed to be Zhang Liang, and Zhang Ba, Zhang Bao? » Explainer -- Names -- Yeah, you are right. Zhang Bao and Zhang Liang are the correct names. But because there are another Zhang Bao (Zhang Fei's son) and another Zhang Liang (Liu Bang's adviser), we twist the names a little bit to differentiate them. Zhang Jue is the correct name. » _pizzlet -- names -- I thought the Yellow Scarves were called the Yellow Turbans. And I thought Zhang Jue was actually named Zhang Jiao » _Stonewolf -- names -- Both 'turban' and 'scarf' are acceptable. They wore cloths around their heads, but did not completely cover them. However, the word 'scarf' usually implies a neck garment, whereas 'turban' implies a head dress. » _Toyzferall -- Descriptions -- Well, at least they didn't make Cao Cao sound defmormed, like they did with Liu Bei... Heh, being a DW3 addict, I'm personally imagining every character I recognize to resemble thier DW3 look, rather than this book's description... [^].[^];; » Ragnarok -- . -- Throughout this entire chapter people keep pointing out all that's different from DW3 and act surprised at such mistakes, The moral of the story is, Don't follow DW3. It's not correct. » LuMeng -- Cao Cao -- How do you pronounce Cao Cao. I have heard several different ways but I am not sure on how to pronounce it correctly, So I thought you guys might know how. » Super Dian Wei -- Cao Cao is pronounced T'sao T'sao. (The C in Pinyin is pronounced like in "cello".) » Ragnarok -- According to the Chinese -- It is pronounced Chao Chao. T'sao was the name used in the old system. I'm no expert on that subject though. It's always been Chao to me. » Miliardo -- Cao Chao? -- I always say it like Cow Cow, because I thought of Ma Chao, and it didn't make sense to have two "Chao's". » Blademaster -- Cao cao? -- Rofl, I've read the Korean pronounciations (sp?) of Cao Cao and it's pronounced "Jo Jo" for some reason. heh. and Lu Bu is called "Yeu Po" and Liu Bei = "Yu Bi". I could go on, but there's too many to list... » laughlin -- Cao Cao, a Beijuo man . . . -- While we are talking about spelling, Beijuo is not possible in pinyin. I believe it should be Peiguo, which is supposed to be in Anhui province. The original is more specific, indicating Cao Cao is from Qiao County in Peiguo. "C" in pinyin is pronounced like ts with a puff of breath through the teeth leading into the vowels following, which is why the old spelling is Ts'ao. We don't have the sound in English (though it's a little bit like the ts in "its"), but it is pretty similar to the "z" in German (as in Zeit). » TsaoWei -- And so enters Tsao Tsao, my favorite character aside from Guan Yu.
77 As a young man Cao Cao had been fond of hunting and delighted in songs and dancing. He was resourceful and full of guile. An uncle, seeing the young fellow so unsteady, used to get angry with him and told his father of his misdeeds. His father remonstrated with him.	» _YaLecSa -- How do you pronounce Cao Cao? -- The CH Brewitt Taylor version has him as Ts'oa Ts'ao, so is "Cao" actualy pronounced "Sao"? The "C" in Taishi Ci is pronounced as an "S", so I think that KOEI made a bit of a mistake in making them all say "Kao Kao". » Da Qiao worshipper -- Cao Cao's pronunciation -- Cao Cao is NOT pronounced like the english animal! The sound is hard for english speakers to replicate, but it sounds something like Tsao Tsao...everytime his name is mentioned in DW3 I cringe... » _Wei Jun -- Cao Cao's pronunication -- actually cao cao's name is pronounced cho cho (at least in cantonese) » dgr81 -- cao cao -- tsao tsao is closer, its actually something like chow chow. » _Asylum Escapee -- Pronouciation -- Chow Chow is right (like the doggy), at least in Mandrin anyway. » ZhangLiaoRulz -- Pronunciation -- Asylum Escapee is rite the Pin yin way is the same as mandarin when it comes to saying Cao Cao, but i just wanted to inform you not ta listen to KOEI's (they are Japanese), and just wanted you to know that if you want to pronounce it in Nippongo (Japanese tongue) its pronounced like So So. » Elemental -- Cao Cao is pronounced T'sao T'sao! -- In mandarin that is. I am chinese myself. Where did you guys get the chow chow? » LiuLeHong -- Pronunciation -- Cao Cao is pronouced Tsau Tsau in mandarin, which I think it's the closest. If you pronouce it Chow Chow you are saying Chao Chao in Mandarin, which is incorrect!! » Heika -- Like father, like son? -- Cao Cao does show enjoyment of some stereotypically eunuch activities (singing, drinking, laying schemes) but the fact that he was a quick thinker and could turn any situation to his advantage would serve him in good stead during his later life. It would bear to be pointed out, however, that the 'offical' annals (The Three Kingdoms) has it written that Cao Cao's young life was studious and quiet, almost the exact opposite of what is described here. Which could be correct?
78 But Cao Cao made equal to the occasion. One day, seeing his uncle coming, he fell to the ground in a pretended fit. The uncle alarmed ran to tell his father, who came, and there was the youth in most perfect health.
79 "But your uncle said you were in a fit. Are you better?" said his father.
80 "I have never suffered from fits or any such illness," said Cao Cao. "But I have lost my uncle's affection, and he has deceived you."	» _Toyzferall -- Mean Cao Cao! -- Man... What a brat... » _Xu Huang -- I always thought he was a mean guy but man... » ZhangLiaoRulz -- That was a bitch move -- Man cao cao made a bitch move » Shokyo -- Cunning though. » JohnnyBlood -- Honestly..... -- If you had an Uncle who wanted you to be normal and not allow you to be the way you are, wouldn't you have used a similar ploy? » toocold -- wow. clever little bastard.
81 Thereafter, whatever the uncle might say of his faults, his father paid no heed. So the young man grew up licentious and uncontrolled.	» notes -- from Truth -- The novel was based on a historical book written by someone that held allegiance to Liu Bei. So Shu's heroics and abilities and Cao Cao's "cruelty" could've (yeah, I said could've) been over exaggerated. » notes -- from Avenger -- Anyone seriously reading the book from a literary standpoint would be smart enough to take authorial bias into account. It's obvious, and I would venture to say an understood fact that the author has distorted true historical events for the sake of his narrative theme. » notes -- from Erebus -- The Romance of the Three Kingdoms is not "true" story per say. Rather, it is, as the name implies, a romanced story based on actual events and characters of China's 2nd and 3rd centuries. So parts of the book are accurately historical, while other parts exaggerated, and a few parts pure fiction. » notes -- from Erebus -- And as to believing if some parts of the books are true or not, it's sadly not a matter of fact, when it comes all down to it, it's a matter of faith. Faith in those who wrote these things. No one knows for sure whether anything written in the book happened. We can only decide if we trust those who wrote about events happening back then... and must keep in mind they were human, flawed like all of us, partial to some cause or some people, and unaware of most of what actually really happened, as most historians actually wrote about stories that were related to them by indirect observers.
82 A man of the time named Qiao Xuan said to Cao Cao, "Rebellion is at hand, and only a man of the greatest ability can succeed in restoring tranquillity. That man is yourself."	» _Sam B. -- Name -- Fans of the game Dynasty Warriors 3 should recognize the name of the man of the time. » Da Qiao worshipper -- YES!!!! -- YES!!! THE ALMIGHTY FATHER OF DA QIAO (and Xiao Qiao too)!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!! » SnakeX -- Question. -- How come Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao's, "Qiao" is in the back of their name, shouldn't it be in the front? » Shokyo -- Probably because it sounds better. -- Speaking of the Qiao's, there is a flower called the "Er Qiao" which is supposed to mean "twin beauty". It's supposed to be named after the two Qiao's. Completely useless piece of info but OK... » LuBoyan -- No -- Actually Da and Xiao just mean lesser and greater, older and younger. Their names are not given. » darkknight -- they're basically big qiao and little qiao which is easier than lady qiao 1 and lady qiao 2
83 And He Yong of Nanyang said of him, "The dynasty of Han is about to fall. He who can restore peace is this man and only he."	» _Zhuge Liang -- Good or bad? -- Now I have seen posts about Cao Cao being good and you people saying Cao Cao was a nice man but was he really bad to other people was really cruel? Did he not care for the people? » _Wei Jun -- Cao Cao -- During the whole war, there was no evil or good side. Everyone was fighting under their own reasons. » _Deadzone -- Just thinking -- It's too early to form opinions. Let's read on... » darkknight -- in one book... -- i think it was san guo zhi cao cao is the good guy and liu bei the bad guy. » Rahonavis -- The good, bad and ugly -- The epic tales in this book clearly shows the nature of humans at their best and at their worst. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Just like in modern day life we have many character traits. Like the people in the book, everyone has dreams, goals, ambitions etc. There is neither good nor bad, evil or otherwise. Situation and things of the world will determine the course each person will take. In this case each of the 3 principle characters all play the role assigned to them by fate and they all adapt to changes, misfortunes, luck as fate will have it. IMHO there's much to be learned from this great book, many of its principles could be applied today as it was 1800 years ago. There is no villian here, only those driven by their conscience, devotion, loyalty, morality and so forth. » heartofbattle -- I agree with that. -- Though there are a few people who I think were just plain evil...
84 Cao Cao went to inquire his future of a wise man of Runan named Xu Shao.
85 "What manner of man am I?" asked Cao Cao.
86 The seer made no reply, and again and again Cao Cao pressed the question.
87 Then Xu Shao replied, "In peace you are an able subject; in chaos you are a crafty hero!"	» idgarad -- Brown-Noser -- I would have this guy executed for insulting my intelligence. But as in life ego can cloud effective judgement. » Solace -- Executed! No way! -- Xu Shao's reply is one of the famous titles given to Cao Cao, a Hero of Chaos! » dgr81 -- crafty hero -- i think it is a great one-liner, effectively describes the career of cao cao's. » darkknight -- i think this sums cao up well -- an able adminstrator in peace. in war a ruthless tactician » TiangFu -- Yes. -- Cao Cao was very wise and peaceful, but, he knew how to get the job done » ChaoYun -- Different Line -- Just wanted to say (cause i didn't remember seeing this in the Brewitt-Taylor version) that in my version, the line is "You Are Able Enough To Rule The World, But Wicked Enough To Destroy It" i think i prefer this line to the other version, i get the feeling that he would be Kick ass either way, good or bad, where as the line in the online story suggest that only in chaos could he thrive. » WUuuu -- I don't think I like that line -- It reeks a bit of melodrama. I mean honestly, Cao Cao isn't destroying the world, its not remotely possible. » guanping -- I think it means he can unite china and bring peace or destroy it -- as in weaken the land so enemys (ie tribes) will come in and take China over. » ChaoYun -- Well, i think the Brewitt-Taylor version shows that he has the ability for good or for bad. -- You get the feeling that he's destined to be at the top for good or for bad. But In Peace perhaps he wouldn't do much, just an administrator or whatever. Thats all i'm saying.
88 Cao Cao greatly rejoiced to hear this.
89 Cao Cao graduated at twenty and earned a reputation of piety and integrity. He began his career as Commanding Officer in a county within the Capital District. In the four gates of the city he guarded, he hung up clubs of various sorts, and he would punish any breach of the law whatever the rank of the offender. Now an uncle of Eunuch Jian Shuo was found one night in the streets with a sword and was arrested. In due course he was beaten. Thereafter no one dared to offend again, and Cao Cao's name became heard. Soon he became a magistrate of Dunqiu.	» Explainer -- Jian Shuo is one of the Ten Regular Attendants. » _Toyzferall -- Stretching truth -- Whoever was talking about the writer being biased... I think that might be true... Cao Cao seems like a jerk, so far. » _Notorious -- Yes, I do believe there are biases. -- But in this case I see Cao Cao as a responsible man. Not letting important people effect his judgement. » _Cao Cao -- Making a Big arrest of celebrity is a sure way to make oneself known. -- Since he is another relative of a powerful eunuch, Cao Cao can do that without fear of the consequences. Smart Guy surely. I read somewhere that Cao Cao and Yuan Shao were comrades in brawls in their younger days. They did every stupid things that wealthy and connected youths do in a corrupt society, like raiding a bride on her wedding day. » _Scalebane -- Morale values and definitions of justice change over the years. -- Bear in mind that this is an old story. » darkknight -- yuan shao would probably have a higher social background than cao cao -- i thought they became friends working under he jin. » Tiamatty -- Duty. Beating that guy wasn't cruel or harsh, it was his job. -- It would've been irresponsible of him to let the guy go without a punishment. I count this incident as a positive indication of Cao Cao's character. » GuanPing -- The guy caught would have been expecting to be released because of his newphew's power -- Cao Cao did his duty as best he could, that is an admirable trait » Heika -- Living up the the Reputation -- An "able subject" indeed. The shocking thing here is not that Cao Cao beat the uncle, but that he did so because it was the right thing to do. Considering the corruption around him, that was a most admirable trait.
90 At the outbreak of the Yellow Scarves, Cao Cao held the rank of General and was given command of five thousand horse and foot to help fight at Yingchuan. He just happened to fall in with the newly defeated rebels whom he cut to pieces. Thousands were slain and endless banners and drums and horses were captured, together with huge sums of money. However, Zhang Ba and Zhang Lian got away; and after an interview with Huangfu Song, Cao Cao went in pursuit of them.	» theonlyone -- Interview -- Don't they mean meeting? Interviews are more like questions about the person? » JiaGai -- Interviews -- This translation of the novel uses a several outdated and obsolete words and older, rarely used definitions of other commonly used words. However in this case, interview means what it means. Cao Cao questioned Huangfu Song what was going on and went to chase the rebels. » Heika -- Official Retribution -- While it sounds a bit bloodthirsty, Cao Cao was acting with propriety in this regard. The Yellow Scarves were traitors to the Han dynasty, and Cao Cao did his duty (distasteful as it was.)
91 Meanwhile Liu Bei and his brothers were hastening toward Yingchuan, when they heard the din of battle and saw flames rising high toward the sky. But they arrived too late for the fighting. They saw Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun to whom they told the intentions of Lu Zhi.
92 "The rebel power is quite broken here," said the commanders, "but they will surely make for Guangzong to join Zhang Jue. You can do nothing better than hasten back."
93 The three brothers thus retraced their steps. Half way along the road they met a party of soldiers escorting a prisoner in a cage-cart. When they drew near, they saw the prisoner was no other than Lu Zhi, the man they were going to help. Hastily dismounting, Liu Bei asked what had happened.
94 Lu Zhi explained, "I had surrounded the rebels and was on the point of smashing them, when Zhang Jue employed some of his supernatural powers and prevented my victory. The court sent down Eunuch Zhuo Feng to inquire into my failure, and that official demanded a bribe. I told him how hard pressed we were and asked him where, in the circumstances, I could find a gift for him. He went away in wrath and reported that I was hiding behind my ramparts and would not give battle and that I disheartened my army. So I was superseded by Dong Zhuo, and I have to go to the capital to answer the charge."	» _Toyzferall -- Supernatural powers? -- Hm. Yeah, I know it's fictional at points... So, magic exists in this story? Cuz' earlier in the reading, magic-like abilities were described... » idgarad -- Contemporary explanation -- It also could have been a translated out cultural saying also, similar to an unlucky person stating "I'm cursed I tell ya." A good example of his statement would be modern computer gamers, when beaten by an extremly superior player called the victor a cheater, hacker, etc. In those days, perhaps out of spite a common retort would be "THey used magic." » Joe_Long -- Supernatural Powers -- I like to think that magic existed in history and not just this "story". Dragons were also relatively prevalent I believe. » Chichiri -- post -- I'd have to agree with idgarad on the fact that Lu Zhi most likely blamed his loss on magic rather than admitting defeat. It's previously stated that Zhang Jue's powers are over natural things such as winds and rain(paragraph 16), so perhaps he was able to predict the weather like a meteorologist and use it to his advantage in battle. » _Scalebane -- post -- Like the king Arthur legends, ROTK was based on true history and, like the king Arthur legends, ROTK might have magic in the fictional story. It's a book based on actual history, so of course it might have fictional elements in it, Just like you wouldn't beleive Liu Bei would have such big ears. @(-,-)@
95 This story put Zhang Fei into a rage. He was for slaying the escort and setting free Lu Zhi. But Liu Bei checked him.
96 "The government will take the due course," said Liu Bei. "You must not act hastily!"	» guanping -- government -- To Liu Bei: the government was corrupt and had killed good men for nothing but lies by evil men. Stop Fei yes but don't trust a corrupt government... » ChangshanTiger -- Liu Bei & The Han -- For Liu Bei, the Han government is what he is fighting for. To admit it was corrupt would raise questions as to whether it is worth it to fight for the Han, rather than simply replace it. However, Liu Bei is still a man of virtue, and stops Zhang Fei because the act he proposes would be dishonourable. However, it is agreed that Liu Bei is showing naiveness by depending on the Han to set things straight. » Heika -- Propriety -- J.R.R. Tolkien said: "Those who combat rebels must not themselves rebel." At this time, the three brothers were combatting the Yellow Scarves. While they had some good points that the brothers could admire (working for the people to ease suffering, among others,) their principle crime was that they were working to depose the Han. If Zhang Fei had acted as he wished, then the brothers would have lowered themselves to the level of the Yellow Scarves.
97 And the escort and the three brothers went two ways.
98 It was useless to continue on that road to Guangzong, so Guan Yu proposed to go back to Zhuo, and they retook the road. Two days later they heard the thunder of battle behind some hills. Hastening to the top, they beheld the government soldiers suffering great loss, and they saw the countryside was full of Yellow Scarves. On the rebels' banners were the words Zhang Jue the Lord of Heaven written large.
99 "We will attack this Zhang Jue!" said Liu Bei to his brothers, and they galloped out to join in the battle.
100 Zhang Jue had worsted Dong Zhuo and was following up his advantage. He was in hot pursuit when the three brothers dashed into his army, threw his ranks into confusion, and drove him back fifteen miles. Then the brothers returned with the rescued general to his camp.
101 "What offices have you?" asked Dong Zhuo, when he had leisure to speak to the brothers.
102 "None," replied they.
103 And Dong Zhuo treated them with disrespect. Liu Bei retired calmly, but Zhang Fei was furious.	» guanping -- Fei would have got in trouble twice now but he is right both times to kill. -- Pity Liu Bei trust the goverment » Tiamatty -- Violence is bad, mm-kay? -- In neither case would Fei have been justified. In the first instance, he wanted to kill some guards who were just doing their duty - the guy who had Lu Zhi arrested wasn't even there. It wouldn't have been very just of him to kill loyal Han servants. With Dong Zhuo, the guy really hasn't done anything to warrant death yet. Yes, he's a jerk. Lots of people are jerks. » guanping -- good point Tiamatty -- Still I can understand why Fei wanted to kill both times.
104 "We have just rescued this menial in a bloody fight," cried Zhang Fei, "and now he is rude to us! Nothing but his death can slake my anger."	» darkknight -- Go for it: Kill him! He deserves it!!!
105 Zhang Fei stamped toward Dong Zhuo's tent, holding firmly a sharp sword.	» _Sam B. -- Weapon -- Wouldn't Zhang fei have held his Snake blade rather than a sharp sword? » _ZhouYu -- post -- A ten-foot spear would probably be a bit unweildy and/or dishonorable for what is implied he's going to do » _Peter -- Weapon -- Every one should have two or more weapons, one or more for battlefield (Nickname - Long weapon);another one is for protection when not in the battlefield such as sword or dagger (Nickname - short weapon) In the context, they returned to their camp, normaaly they should put their long weapon and horse together outside. There is analog: they walked into the camp, not ride on horse into camp as in the battlefield. So they had short weapon in hand, not a long one. FYI » dgr81 -- post -- the snake spear was probably more suited to be used when fighting on horseback, whereas i'm sure the sword was a personal weapon most fighting men carried. i can't imagine zhang fei lugging his heavy spear around everywhere he went. » _Fengxiao -- dgr81 yes you are true -- wouldnt that be weird for him to carry it everywhere look at the game they made ya dont see people caring there big original spikes clubs gatana's etc around » GanNingRocksMySocks -- so, it doesnt matter -- but it would be pretty intimidating and it would look cool. plus he could just slice the tent apart, and then kill him from ten feet off, which would also be kinda kool cuz he could say he was nowhere near it when it happened, and it would be true. » MaxBrains -- These people may be rather brutal, but they're not liars. -- A lie of omission is still a lie.
106 As it was in olden time so it is today, The simple wight may merit well, Officialdom holds sway; Zhang Fei, the blunt and hasty, Where can you find his peer? But slaying the ungrateful would Mean many deaths a year.	» PesssimstByNature -- Go Translator Guy! -- Man, the guy that translated these poems is incredible. I always wondered, do the poems in Chinese rhyme as well? » guanping -- I think that they probably do. -- The Translator has done brilliantly » Shokyo -- Obviously they change the wording to make it rhyme... -- But Chinese-English translations are a little hazy, and therefore flexible. But go translater guy! » Tiamatty -- Slaying the ungrateful -- Would mean many deaths a year. Great line. » Miliardo -- Yeah -- This guy's good.
107 Dong Zhuo's fate will be unrolled in later chapters.	» guanping -- Go Fei » Pang Tong -- Dong Zhuo's fate makes for interesting talk. Because it crosses threads with so many other fates.

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